drum118
Superstar
Madrid is better (2012). Should only be 6 lanes with on street parking after peak time.
Barcelona 2012
Budapest 2012
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Madrid is better (2012). Should only be 6 lanes with on street parking after peak time.
Barcelona 2012
Budapest 2012
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Not yet 100% implemented.
drum118
Superstar
Milton will not be until 2022 if things remain on schedule. Barrie & Stouffville about 2018. No idea as to RH line since it not in any timetable I have seen.
Georgetown in the mid 20's.
To make an impact for more riders on the Lakeshore, headway needs to fall to 20-15 minutes mid day and special events at night.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
I read somewhere that demolition wouldn't even begin until 2020.
Silence&Motion
Senior Member
I realize that other cities have done a good job in building 8 lane streets, but I really have no faith in Toronto to do something similar to Madrid or Barcelona. I think a more realistic look at what we'll end up with is Lake Shore Blvd @ Bathurst: http://goo.gl/maps/JdF5W. This stretch is one of the loudest, most congested, most pedestrian unfriendly blocks in the city.
That street in Pudong, Shanghai looks pretty brutal too (as do many of the wide streets in China).
Funny how the artist didn't think to add the bumper-to-bumper traffic, including belching delivery trucks and greyhound buses.
That street in Pudong, Shanghai looks pretty brutal too (as do many of the wide streets in China).
This looks like a very pleasant boulevard to walk on:
Funny how the artist didn't think to add the bumper-to-bumper traffic, including belching delivery trucks and greyhound buses.
Electrify
Senior Member
Don't forget there are also the railway tracks which will limit the ability to create the urban vistas seen in those pics. I think any plan to remove the Gardiner should include an elevated DRL. Perhaps have it go underground near Bay and link with the Queens Quay streetcar/future LRT station.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
An elevated DRL this far from the downtown core would be an incredibly ineffective route.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Waterfront Toronto would presumably be leading. They've done good work so far and I'm sure we'd see the same on
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
In other words, two election cycles away. Not good.
rbt
Senior Member
Yup. This is the last piece of the Gardiner to get maintenance. They're going to start doing repairs from the West which will make the actually congested parts of Gardiner 4 lanes for about 6 years.
Grimace
Active Member
I wonder how we can reconcile the "why don't we ever build something nice" crowd with the "we shouldn't try to build something nice because we'll screw it up" crowd.
As someone else has noted, Waterfront Toronto would be involved, and the work they have done for West Donlands and Queen's Quay West is very promising.
I am not a traffic expert but I do sit in an office overlooking this stretch of the Gardiner. It is not congested in either direction in the morning. In the evening it is generally not congested, but gets busy, going east. Going west it is jammed, but entirely because it hits a wall downtown. For instance, by 3pm yesterday, westbound traffic was backed up to the Jarvis exit (BTW, very few people taking this route get off at Jarvis, more get off at Yonge, but the vast majority go straight through). By 4pm, it was backed up all the way to DVP. It remained this way till about 6:15, at which point it gradually improved until the congestion was gone by 6:40.
That congestion is entirely driven by the heavy downtown traffic getting on at York and Spadina, so I don't see how possibly 4 traffic lights at Cherry, Parliament, Sherbourne and Jarvis would make a difference -- the traffic is already at a crawl. Yes, the road would be very congested from 3pm to 6:30 Monday to Friday, but you're not slowing down travel times.
Presumably during morning and afternoon peaks you will also have no left turns, signal coordination, etc. There is not that much cross traffic down here on Cherry, Parliament, Sherbourne and Jarvis, so the priority can be heavily weighted to Lakeshore.
Grimace
Active Member
The pics completely contemplate the railway tracks, and intend to address them with trees and a bike path. Have you walked under the railway tracks in this area? There's rarely a reason to, but it's really not bad at all. Must shorter distance then Yonge/Bay/York/Simcoe. Remember trains only pass over now and then, so you don't have the same noise issues. It is the Gardiner/Lakeshore that is unpleasant.
Silence&Motion
Senior Member
But most other streets aren't 8 lanes wide.
I'm not trying to advocate a defeatist attitude. Let me put it another way. Just because an 8 lane street works well in the centre of Madrid or Barcelona, doesn't mean it will work along Toronto's waterfront. The context is quite different. We need to take Lake Shore West @ Bathurst, and Lake Shore East @ Leslie very seriously. Even if WT splurges on more landscaping and public artwork, there are still going to be many underlying elements that are similar, including the nature of the traffic. During rush hour, there will be 8 lanes of bumper-to-bumper traffic belching out exhaust fumes. When it's not rush hour, cars will be moving at much faster speeds than on regular downtown streets, which means that they will be louder and more dangerous (similar to what Lake Shore is like currently). And there is going to be a lot of industrial traffic using the road as well.
When it comes to wanting to build something nice, I think we could do a lot better than an 8 lane road. If we're not willing to spend the money to bury it, then keep it elevated and turn the ground level into a unique pedestrian and cycling environment.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
so university then? and industrial use? there is only 1 industrial customer and that is ridpaths.. and how is bumper to bumper traffic on the road any better than bumper to bumper traffic on both the surface and in the air as in the current situation?
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TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Well in that case... it sounds like University Avenue and to a lesser extent Spadina Avenue during rush hour. I've never had a problem walking down either.
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