[Megaton327]

How would the electronic tolling know if you are using the lane as HOV (with 2/3 or more people) or to charge you the fare as a HOT? Or is this only a HOT lane, no HOV? Also, has this been tested anywhere? I understood the HOT lanes on the QEW during Pan AM (do they still exist?) because you had to purchase the pass ahead of time. But if the option is to choose the lane on the spot (via electronic tolling) won't people just use the regular lanes unless it becomes very busy.. and at that time, everyone could make the same choice to jump in the HOT lane, thus making it just as congested as the other lanes.

1) All HOT lanes planned by the province will be free for all vehicles that meet current HOV requirement, i.e. 2+ people, green vehicle plates, limos, buses, etc.

2) There were never HOT lanes anywhere during Pan Am, there were Games Route Network HOV lanes which allowed official games vehicles in as well, but not HOT. There is now an HOT lane on the QEW, it began well after Pan Am ended, and is still ongoing if I recall correctly.

I'll agree that I think HOT lanes are a terrible idea. The HOV lanes get horribly congested as-is on the QEW and 403 at certain locations and times of day, the 404 one is only a bit better. It's so easy to qualify as an HOV since it's 2+ not 3+, and with the constantly-being-increased electric vehicle incentives there will be a lot more green plates on the road in the coming years, etc. so the last thing we need is to sell cheap permits to anyone with a few bucks to spare and defeat the whole purpose.

 

[toaster29]

I think the problem still would be that it would act as a use-as-needed, with the electronic tolling. So the one day there's an accident, or there's a lot of traffic for whatever reason, anyone can take the toll lane, ultimately leading it be just as congested. What's good about the QEW HOT lanes is that you have to decide to purchase the HOT pass before. You can't decide on the spot. With people using Waze and other apps all the time, they know where the traffic lies, so I don't think this would work really well.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Interesting about the 427 tolls in the Northern section of the highway only.
I use the highway daily, and it doesn't follow the traffic patterns of the rest of the majors, perhaps because of the airport. You often have heavy traffic in both directions (particularly south of the 401) during both morning and afternoon rush hours, which I think is why it is the third busiest highway in North America. What's also interesting is that I think many people who use the highway are unaware that it runs a collector/express system, partly because none of the signage indicates it, instead just the exists are listed. You'll often have the "express" which is the main highway, backed up quite far, and can quickly zoom right through the collector express exchanges (north-bound only, southbound, there is one "icky" spot where the collectors is basically forced down to 1 lane which slows things down), while everyone else waits in the backed-up traffic. It would be nice if they extended the E/C system with the expansion, but it would likely be way to expensive.

I also use the short portion of hwy 27 northbound between 401 and Dixon road. Particularly if the 401 interchange and airport area is mucked up. It's built closer to freeway standards than lower tier highway standards, and its usually not crowded and you can get back on the 427 at dixon or Belfield via the 409 ramp

 

[W. K. Lis]

A little history lesson. Might be on a surprise test later in the year.

Did you know that parts of Canada drove on the left hand side of the road. British Columbia switched from the left to the right on January 1, 1922, New Brunswick on December 1, 1922, Nova Scotia on April 15, 1923, and Prince Edward Island on May 1, 1924. Newfoundland changed to driving to the right in 1947 before becoming part of Canada in 1949.

Sweden switched from the left to the right on September 3, 1967.

 

[amnesiajune]

I'll agree that I think HOT lanes are a terrible idea.

They're a terrible idea the way Ontario is running them. What works much better is the system used in Washington DC and Miami (and probably a few other cities) - tolls are increased or decreased so that they'll have as much usage as possible without traffic getting slowed down. In Washington for example, they charge as little as 10 cent/km if the road is empty, but more than $1.00/km during rush hour.

 

[Megaton327]

They're a terrible idea the way Ontario is running them. What works much better is the system used in Washington DC and Miami (and probably a few other cities) - tolls are increased or decreased so that they'll have as much usage as possible without traffic getting slowed down. In Washington for example, they charge as little as 10 cent/km if the road is empty, but more than $1.00/km during rush hour.

Disclaimers: 1) I drive an electric vehicle which gets me free access to all HOV and HOT lanes, 2) notwithstanding that, I have enough disposable income right now that I could probably make use of HOT lanes easily enough even with fairly punitive pricing, 3) I feel that my opinions below would stand regardless of either or both of the two preceding points

I still have reservations, even though that's certainly an improvement. You can make it $100/km, to continue down that road, at some point or another you can start charging whatever sky-high rate because the lane is busier but rich people can still afford it. It really doesn't seem appropriate to designate that lane as being available for the rich to enjoy while the less well-off have to sit stuck in the regular lanes. I haven't heard any strategy for HOT lanes that doesn't A) render them pointless due to letting too many people in, or B) render them yet another advantage that the rich have over everyone else.

Honestly, if they're going to do HOT lanes, I'd rather they just scrap all HOV and HOT lanes, period, so that at least everyone has access to them. HOV are great, HOT is better off as a regular lane.

 

[Leo_Chan]

At what point will HOV and HOT lanes no longer allow single driver EVs? I would assume w're still for off from the majority of people using electric/battery cars.

 

[Megaton327]

At what point will HOV and HOT lanes no longer allow single driver EVs? I would assume we're still for off from the majority of people using electric/battery cars.

It has been made "permanent" but I believe I saw a reference to that being re-evaluated periodically, the next being 2020. I think it's fair to infer that since this is an incentive to encourage adoption of EVs, as you indicated this is likely to wind down once a sizable percentage of people drive EVs. I know jurisdictions like California and Norway have similar programs, they've had astounding levels of success with EVs and I don't believe HOV-like benefits have expired in either of them, so with Ontario's relatively paltry adoption, unless our standards are much lower I think it'll likely continue towards 2025 at least, if not 2030.

Green Plate wise, we're currently somewhere around GVAO or GVAP based on cars I see, so no more than about 15000 have been issued so far. Also, to be fair, some people might have green plates and live nowhere near any existing or planned HOV/HOT lanes so they'd be unlikely to ever drive in them.

Also, for the record, whenever the PC next get elected, I'd assume that all EV incentives including HOV/HOT lane access will disappear, all HOV lanes will be converted to payment-only HOT lanes, etc. Not trying to be inflammatory, I just think that's an obviously foreseeable outcome. NDP will probably keep them with some changes, cutting back certain things (rebates on expensive vehicles) and increasing other aspects.

 

[Momin]

Highway 427 Expansion: $616 M Design-Build Contract Signed

 

[FMCS]

Does anyone else think that this price tag for a 6.6km extension to a highway is absolutely outrages! I could understand that if extended north to Hwy#9 but to Major Mackenzie??

 

[gweed123]

Does anyone else think that this price tag for a 6.6km extension to a highway is absolutely outrages! I could understand that if extended north to Hwy#9 but to Major Mackenzie??

It's for the widening too. Yes, it is a bit high, but it also includes the Maintain part of the DBFM contract.

 

[darth_freeman]

Does anyone else think that this price tag for a 6.6km extension to a highway is absolutely outrages! I could understand that if extended north to Hwy#9 but to Major Mackenzie??

That would be a waste to extend up to Highway 9...there's just not much up there, and there would be too much environmental destruction.

Highway 400 will probably be widened to 10 lanes within 10 years from Highway 9 southerly, which should be able to accommodate the pent up demand.

 

[Transportfan]

That would be a waste to extend up to Highway 9...there's just not much up there, and there would be too much environmental destruction.

Highway 400 will probably be widened to 10 lanes within 10 years from Highway 9 southerly, which should be able to accommodate the pent up demand.

But that leaves no reduncancy.

 

[Kitsune]

I think it would be a better idea to extend the 404 to 11 to divert traffic, and build the Bradford bypass.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Does anyone else think that this price tag for a 6.6km extension to a highway is absolutely outrages! I could understand that if extended north to Hwy#9 but to Major Mackenzie??

probably over half of it is the maintain contract. My understanding is that it includes plowing, paving, etc. for 30 years. Those costs add up. These DBFM contracts seem to really inflate the construction costs, but usually, it's much lower. It's no different than the 407 extension, the whole thing was $2.2 billion, but actual construction costs were probably closer to half of that.