afransen
Senior Member
How is that different than current state of affairs?
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- Thread starter Haljackey
- Start date
whydidimakethis
Active Member
The simplest way to tackle this is probably to upgrade the 427 between 401 and 409. Essentially just making the shortcut a lot of commuters already use more efficient, which could help get some cars off the middle section. There does look to be enough room to make a semi- collector express system (by sacrificing an airport parking lot). Make these new collector lanes feed into the 409, and then get rid of the WB-SB loop ramp. It would probably just be a 2x5x5x2 configuration
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dullturtle06
Active Member
Honestly just adding express and collector lanes from 409 to 427 would solve the largest bottle neck on the 401. And there is enough space for 12 lanes. Anything else I would see as a waste. Ontario highways or so wide, because the province focuses on capacity and not on network connectivity.
whydidimakethis
Active Member
Yes it would, the only problem with the option is that it would is that it would require the entire 427/401 and 401/409 interchanges to be rebuilt/realigned which would be very expensive.
nfitz
Superstar
Which would also help reduce the number of commuters.
Though with technology these days, there's fixes for that. Screen cars for those that, say, going more than 5 km (or whatever) east and west on arteries, and toll them as well. And don't toll those only going short distances on the 401.
Heck, just the latter would probably be pretty effective.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
this is such a "Toronto" perspective it's almost hilarious.
I mean, whatever, but I do believe there is value in a toll-free option, or at least a low-cost toll option for travelling around this province.
kamira51
Active Member
I'm curious, how much a year does MTO spend on fixing roads?
whydidimakethis
Active Member
If anything it should be the opposite. Only toll those going short distances on the 401. People hopping on and off the highway are probably a big cause of congestion.
turini2
Active Member
Idea - give people who drive cross country via the GTHA on Highway 407 a discount - like, a truck from Detroit to Montreal shouldn't use the 401. Or even, toll people who use the 401 to do this!
(some peak hour only road pricing would probably help to spread demand tbh ... but I think road pricing should replace most forms of vehicle taxation)
(some peak hour only road pricing would probably help to spread demand tbh ... but I think road pricing should replace most forms of vehicle taxation)
nfitz
Superstar
A Toronto perspective on an urban (not even suburban) Toronto forum - who'd have guessed?
Though I wasn't suggesting this provincially - only from about 410 to 412. Not sure why having 100 km of 407 tolled is okay, but a much shorter distance actually in Toronto is a problem.
Though now that you mention it - tolling the entire 401 at much lower rates wouldn't hurt. Though perhaps a provincial gas tax is a simpler solution than tolling non-urban areas.
KevinT
Active Member
For decades I've said that the city limits signs posted alongside the 401 should say "TORONTO / It's in your way".
Haydenpoon
Active Member
And we also need direct ramps from the HOV lanes. More than often you have to get out of the HOV lanes and stuck in traffic at an interchange (The only exception being highway 404SB to highway 401WB)
Haljackey
Active Member
I'm one of the few from outside Greater Toronto that posts here- some others can't stand the 'Toronto perspective', but I like to hear all sides to help decide where I stand on various topics. I hope you appreciate the perspectives I bring to the table as well.
As an outsider, I view the 401 differently than most on this forum. I think that perspective is valuable as it might give you an insight into how others are thinking about these topics. I see the 401 as a way to get through your city quickly or to a destination in your city. If HOV lanes existed, people like me don't care about transfer points or dedicated exits-entrances. I'm using the HOV all way from start to end.
HOVs on the 401 could be considered a 'super express' and only break for merge space at major interchanges where there is a dedicated express-only exit and/or entrance. I want to see HOVs on the 401 one day that run all the way from Highway 8 in Kitchener to the 418 or 35/115. To get through Toronto that would be awesome and would avoid using the 407.
Regarding the 407, I'd like to see not only more long-distance truck traffic use it. but maybe one day make an agreement to convert it to a HOT highway. Cars with more than 1 occupant would pay less tolls - maybe half? And perhaps just the camera/transponder entrance charge would apply with 3 or 4+ people.
These are ways you can move more people without spending much on infrastructure expansion.
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
You could even upgrade that stub of Hwy 27 between the 401 and 409 to semi freeway standards. There are few businesses actually fronting onto the highway there and only 1 intersection (Dixon) and 1 RIRO ramp Farnboro. Something similar to the Allen expressway could work here. Though setting up the ramps for an interchange with 409 would be a challenge as there are a number of businesses right up close to the roadway in the area and not much free land.
***EDIT***
I wonder if simply adding ramps from EB 401 to NB Hwy 27 would help, from there I think a diamond interchange could be squeezed in for 409/27
afransen
Senior Member
The HOV lanes are a completely idiotic idea that, as far as I can ascertain, only make congestion worse due to improper lane usage and weaving.