[DanielMar_Toronto]

An election pledge to buy the 407 and remove the tolls would buy all the suburban Toronto

In that case, would it be made "free" or remain a toll given the law about all new freeways not being tolled aside from this one? I'd imagine it would still attract more people if it was publicly owned but still towed (granted, would the province still charge a premium? Is Durham portion the 407 considered a rip off?).

 

[Northern Light]

An election pledge to buy the 407 and remove the tolls would buy all the suburban Toronto votes

It might well; though it doesn't strike me as a good use of scarce funds right now.

Don't get me wrong, I think it could be a supportable decision, depending on the terms.

But unless we're going to pay for it by further raising tolls or a dedicated new tax stream........that would be billions off the table for other necessary projects.

 

[lowtrain]

The busiest sections are already very busy at peak. And if they turn that into gridlock now, capacity reduces. Which will surely make the 401 worse, not better.

I don't understand how putting more cars on the 407 would make 401 worse. Sections might be busy, but this is what the traffic map looks like at 5pm on a Thursday - not a single red section on the 407.

 

[rdaner]

It might well; though it doesn't strike me as a good use of scarce funds right now.

Don't get me wrong, I think it could be a supportable decision, depending on the terms.

But unless we're going to pay for it by further raising tolls or a dedicated new tax stream........that would be billions off the table for other necessary projects.

I am assuming that somebody is seeing this expenditure as delaying the need for 413 thus saving funds. There is also the amount of money saved by not having to service development that would result from 413 thus additional savings.

 

[afransen]

I don't understand how putting more cars on the 407 would make 401 worse. Sections might be busy, but this is what the traffic map looks like at 5pm on a Thursday - not a single red section on the 407.
View attachment 601020

Highway capacity actually declines when they are congested. ie, less vehicles are moved.

Buy the 407, make the 407 free to use, turn the 407 into a parking lot to mirror the 401, 407 may actually move fewer vehicles than it does currently--->407 users that pay extra to take a more circuitous route may be inclined to just use the 401 if it is more direct and no more congested. The people I know who carpool to afford the 407 tolls will likely not bother with carpooling if they are going to sit in traffic for free anyway.

I am baffled that people look at the traffic map above and think "we should make the 407 more like the 401" and not the reverse.

 

[11th]

Highway capacity actually declines when they are congested. ie, less vehicles are moved.

Buy the 407, make the 407 free to use, turn the 407 into a parking lot to mirror the 401, 407 may actually move fewer vehicles than it does currently--->407 users that pay extra to take a more circuitous route may be inclined to just use the 401 if it is more direct and no more congested. The people I know who carpool to afford the 407 tolls will likely not bother with carpooling if they are going to sit in traffic for free anyway.

I am baffled that people look at the traffic map above and think "we should make the 407 more like the 401" and not the reverse.

I am curious as to how many of the current 401 users should really be 407's, and vice versa. I think 407 being tolled has skewed the distribution and may have caused unnecessary traffic on roads leading north from the 401.

 

[afransen]

I am curious as to how many of the current 401 users should really be 407's, and vice versa. I think 407 being tolled has skewed the distribution and may have caused unnecessary traffic on roads leading north from the 401.

Maybe we should put tolls on the 401 to encourage those folks to use the 407 instead.