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spider said:
Within the confines of my self imposed rules of engagement I have to state that I find this statistic amazing, can you provide references? My observations in admittedly limited use of the TTC in peak periods reveal a large student component of the ridership who are obviously not riding by choice, they are too young to drive.
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Why in the world do you choose to single out one trivial fact in his entire argument? Are the "self-imposed rules of engagement" simple excuses for a lack of answer?

Remember, there are no differences between liberals and conservatives. They're all people and are susceptible to things humans usually experience, such as rage, indignation, stubbornness and ignorance- there is really no better side. By refusing to participate in a respectful manner, you may miss out on a chance to see why the other side complains so much, and to also put out your view.
 
A variation of something I posted elsewhere, returning to that "only dissenting vote" thing last week......

What's even more surreal is that even his supposed ideological bobbsey-twin brother went with the consensus.

Or just, generally--the Mayor as the sole dissenter on anything vs a 44-member Council?

Look--I know it may be erring on the side of caution on everybody's part, left or right; but there's something very macabre here that's being glossed-over--it may be a fashionable spin among the firm left, but you can't simply spin this in terms of Mike Harris-type right-wing-conspiracy.

Consider this--left or right, those who know Rob Ford, "know his number" for the most part. And don't think that those who're on-side with him are working to advance, in the rawest terms, his agenda, other than through media-friendly mouthing of words. They're working to salvage his agenda--to save it from itself, so to speak.

And in turn, to save the Mayor from himself.

Given the evidence so far, making a silk (or at least a Bad Boy polyester) purse out of this sow's ear might be a tougher task than Rob Ford's handlers bargained on--indeed, I still can't get over this nagging conviction that some big municipal tragedy without precedent (at least, in a city of this size) is in the offing, something which may involve a "quarantining" of the Mayor, roughly speaking. At one time, I thought the tragedy'd be externally triggered (like, say, protests leading to Kent State-type killings, or an attempt on his life); now I'm leaning more t/w its being self-inflicted.

As much as opponents want to frame Rob Ford as an uncouth Homer Simpson-type lout, I think the tragic core of his noble-savage electoral appeal may have more to do with a "Ralph Wiggum For President" dynamic--unfortunately in practice, you can only go so far with a paste-eating Mayor. (And which, ironically enough, brands him as the ultimate beneficiary of that oft-derided-by-his-type goody-goody-touch-feely-politically-correct-70s-lefty "I'm Special" way of thinking.)
 
I have to state that I find this statistic amazing, can you provide references
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Well, I pulled that stat off Transit Toronto. I don't see why that would be difficult to believe. Obviously subway trips are going to account for more choice rider trips than bus trips...a lot of car owners who live near the subway line take the subway downtown to work...faster, cheaper and a lot less hassle.

Remember, there are also lots of households that only have one car, instead of two because transit is used for some household trips (one spouse will drive, the other take transit...or you use transit for work trips and your car for other trips). There are also many people who could own a car, but choose not to, because they live and work in areas of the city where it simply is not necessary (I fall into that category).

I think the figure is more like 80% for GO Train ridership.


Other than the lying, I don't see that any of these points are a big issue.
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Well, unfortunately, he is our ambassador to the world, and it does reflect on the image of the city. If you thought Mel was cringe-worthy....you ain't seen nothing yet.


I still can't get over this nagging conviction that some big municipal tragedy without precedent (at least, in a city of this size) is in the offing, something which may involve a "quarantining" of the Mayor, roughly speaking. At one time, I thought the tragedy'd be externally triggered (like, say, protests leading to Kent State-type killings, or an attempt on his life); now I'm leaning more t/w its being self-inflicted.
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I've never had any doubt that any demise of Rob Ford would be entirely self-inflicted. I have this feeling it's possible he will not finish his term. At first, I thought he would be completely shut down at council, forcing him to resign as completely ineffective. But I doubt council will do this, as it is not respectful to the process to do these things. But I think he is going to say or do something as mayor, that he can't get away with like he did when he was just a laughing stock councillor, that will cause such a mess, that he will be forced to resign, or be ousted in some way (can you impeach a mayor? ). He's been eerily quiet so far, because when Rob Ford speaks, he always says something stupid. But keeping him silent for 4 years is impossible.
 
Buddy, youre far out with your prejudice remarks on this individual.:eek:

Prejudice Foresight....... An opinion or judgment formed without due examination; prejudgment; a leaning toward one side of a question from other considerations than those belonging to it; an unreasonable predilection for, or objection against, anything; especially, an opinion or leaning adverse to anything, without just grounds, or before sufficient knowledge.

Man, just hope you chill out and catch a breath of fresh air.:D
 
Last week - $100,000 for HIV & STD screening is taxpayers money, we don't want it. This week - give us $150 million. Of what? Non taxpayers money!! Two things come to mind. Ford showed us just how homophobic he really is. And he really doesn't give a s**t about taxpayers.
 
nfitz said:
To someone who can't afford a car, they are rich.

They certainly have a lot more money to spend than someone who can't afford a car ... and yet the Ford cut the taxes of those with more money, and cut services that those with less money need.

Mayor Rob Ford is a bigot. This is indeed a new low for the city.
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Your comments are completely ignorant, sorry. There are lots of 'non rich' or working poor who struggle to maintain a car because they need to. On the other hand, there are lots of wealthy people who choose to use transit out of convenience. In other words your assumptions are just as selective and bigotted as your accusations.

... and this whole notion that Toronto is a transit city à la NYC is rubbish. I can't tell you how many people I know, of almost every demographic you can think of, who opt to take their car to go grocery shopping or to any number of places that public transit would get them to just a little more inconveniently... and this doesn't make them rich or evil or transit haters. The transit culture just isn't as well established here yet as many would think it to be, or wish it to be. It'll have to be far more extensive, and it will have to be a far more convenient option to cars than what it is now, before many, many will choose to live by it exclusively... which only goes to back up somebody else's point that for the vast majority the blurring between car user and transit user is an issue of context and not option.
 
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The purpose of the VRT was to diversify the tax base in order to take pressure off of property taxes.

Property tax is applied to houses, condominiums and rental apartments in the city, so in principle, I see nothing wrong with the broad application of a VRT. The debate might be about the price, but at approximately $5.41 a month, it wasn't outrageous.
 
nfitz you need to calm down.


You do not need to take everything to that level.

I am not a fan of Ford but he is not a bigot, because I have met him and he was very nice to me. So was Miller

Stop judging people from your couch.
 
gristle said:
The purpose of the VRT was to diversify the tax base in order to take pressure off of property taxes.

Property tax is applied to houses, condominiums and rental apartments in the city, so in principle, I see nothing wrong with the broad application of a VRT. The debate might be about the price, but at approximately $5.41 a month, it wasn't outrageous.
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I really don't have an issue with looking at different options for raising funds, and taxing drivers through fees or whatever may have to be an option. I just don't like all the simplistic, polarizing and reactionary rhetoric about the 'war on car vs the war on transit' or how this is a war on the poor by the so-called rich. Maybe it's the same everywhere but Toronto just seems to be bogged down is this childish nonsense.
 
GenerationW said:
As for Ford's $3 million gamble on consultants, they had better find at least $3 million in savings!
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Of course they will. That will be their mandate and they'll find millions to cut come hell or high water. It doesn't matter whether you yourself think it's gravy or not. Their job will be to identify cuts, not determine if things need to be cut.
 
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