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Making decisions under the current system that fail under the most moderate scrutiny is not the same as attempting to change the current system. Besides that, Ford has made no comment on the wonders of private healthcare that I've ever heard, and even if he did, those matters are way outside his purview. If healthcare privatization is something he wants to get involved in, municipal politics is not the right place for him. For now he should concentrate on what's best for Toronto, and provincially funded HIV screening and education is certainly good for the city.
 
Hmm... I wonder whether they forced those who claimed the earth was not the center of the universe to get a test for mental disorder.

Man, you really must be confused if you see yourself as Galileo in this scenario.


It's not a fantasy

As long as it resides in your mind...not in reality...it's pretty safe to call it a fantasy.

Private health insurance providers have been doing that for ages.

What...devoting their energy to maximizing premium intake and minimizing payouts? Yes...they have. And that's why it's absolutely retarded to have privately run health insurance. A poorly funded public insurer isn't all that great either, but at least it actually concerns itself with your health rather trying to screw you out of your money.


why do you think car insurance rates are different for different people?

Because it's based on the simple factor of the replacement value of your vehicle and the premiss that if you suck at driving, you pay more.


As for genetic, unless you are disabled from birth, there's no reason you should rely on social safety net.

Huh??? Wha???


Look...it's been entertaining, but having debates with people who have fantasies about these imaginary societies gets boring real fast. Write a book.
 
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hehe I liked the part about the genetics. Libertarianism (or any -ism for that matter) taken to the extreme is so adorable!
 
Man, you really must be confused if you see yourself as Galileo in this scenario.




As long as it resides in your mind...not in reality...it's pretty safe to call it a fantasy.



What...devoting their energy to maximizing premium intake and minimizing payouts? Yes...they have. And that's why it's absolutely retarded to have privately run health insurance. A poorly funded public insurer isn't all that great either, but at least it actually concerns itself with your health rather trying to screw you out of your money.




Because it's based on the simple factor of the replacement value of your vehicle and the premiss that if you suck at driving, you pay more.




Huh??? Wha???


Look...it's been entertaining, but having debates with people who have fantasies about these imaginary societies gets boring real fast. Write a book.

I am not comparing my self to Galileo (who wasn't burned btw, it was Bruno), I am comparing your close mindness to the Church. And it's indeed boring to debate with people who think any ideas that do not agree with his/her own as fantasy.
 
hehe I liked the part about the genetics. Libertarianism (or any -ism for that matter) taken to the extreme is so adorable!

I am afraid it's liberalism that will take genetics to the extreme. The difference between Liberalism and Libertarianism is that Libertarianism believes the power and responsibilities lie with the individuals whereas Liberalism believe the state knows the best. Let the state control genetics? I can't even phantom the horror.

It's quite eye opening reading some of the posts here. I thought liberals would at least agree that all people are equal and people should be allowed to make choices in life. Instead, I see close mindness and secret prejudices based on "statistics". I didn't think the societies in 1984 or Gattaca were possible. Surely people won't give up their freedom without a fight. Yet, I am far more pessimistic now. If a benign dictator came along and promised free medicare and housing for everybody, a society where everybody get the job most suitable for him/her, a communist utopian, half of the people here might welcome him with open arms. After all, we wouldn't have stupid people voting in Rob Ford anymore, TCHC and HIV fundings would be safe. Luckily, Toronto did vote for Rob Ford whereas people living in this fantasy world overwhelmingly supported Smitherman. Even if Rob Ford turned out to be a mistake, at least it's good to see people are still allowed to make mistakes.
 
I am comparing your close mindness to the Church.

I am not the church in this scenario at all. The church was motivated purely by protecting church doctrine, despite whatever facts or evidence said to the contrary. The church capitulates only when the evidence is so overwhelming it has to...and then makes up excuses as to why all of a sudden the church doctrine and contrary evidence are actually in compliance. Rob Ford is a lot like this church....bare-face lie to you until indisputable evidence forces you to admit you were lying. Rob Ford is unfit to be mayor based solely on his extremely flawed character, without even bringing his imaginary policies to the table. But like the church, Ford has his blind, zombie followers. But logic and reason will win in the end.

The only reason you call me close-minded, is because I don't agree with you. But disagreeing does not a close mind make. I have listened to your theory, and disagree not based on that it doesn't comply with my ideology (I don't have, or believe there is a grand unifying utopian theory on this matter at all), but because it doesn't stand up to the evidence.
 
I don't undrstands why some people are disrespectful to the church? Not just this thread but other threads I read. I go to church butt I'm not a 'blind zombie follower'.

I may not agree with Rob Ford but i dont' compare him with Muslims or any other faith based beliefs


Thanks!
 
I don't undrstands why some people are disrespectful to the church?

If you can come up with any reason why I should respect the inquisition, then I'm all ears.

I go to church butt I'm not a 'blind zombie follower'.

Well, "zombie" is a colourful metaphor, but since zombies don't actually exist, I will gladly retract that word. But I'm afraid "blind" will have to remain. If it makes you feel better, you can call it "faith". But the fact remains you believe in the fairytales and imaginary beings your church leaders invented, despite all facts, evidence and logic to the contrary.

Promoting the idea that religious cults are sacred cows, and should be above criticism is what I find disrespectful....especially given the nature of religious cults.
 
Is your councilor a part of Ford Nation (aka Bizarro Toronto)?

20110308scorebyfordiness.gif


From torontoist.com.
 
The anti-Ford camp pushing its politicking to destructive ends? You decide:

James: Attacking city’s auditor to get at Ford is wrong

By Royson James
Toronto Star
City Columnist

In most homes around town, Jeff Griffiths’ name is gold.

The city’s auditor general spends his days sniffing through balance sheets, checking tips to the city’s fraud and waste hotline, on the hunt to save taxpayers’ money.

And periodically he files his findings, as he did last week on the scandalous spending at the Toronto Community Housing Corporation.

You’d think Griffiths would be hailed as a hero at city hall. You’d be wrong, especially if you looked to the city councillors intent on stopping Mayor Rob Ford.

Their priority, played out at council Tuesday, is to discount any findings of waste that the mayor may use to bolster his campaign to cut the size of government.

So, instead of lionizing Griffiths at city council, the group of councillors sought to belittle him, cut him down to size, and weaken his bite.

The attack, strictly for political gain, was unconscionable and shameful. Worse, only a few councillors rose to defend Griffiths.

“This is a classic case of shoot the messenger,†said Councillor Doug Holyday. Right he was.

Griffiths the messenger properly filed an audit report showing housing staff spent thousands of dollars on pedicures, manicures, gift chocolate, spas, planning trips to Muskoka, sole-source contracts, and other procurement that clearly violated city policy. Meanwhile, public housing tenants couldn’t get their units fixed, for shortage of money.

Star columnist Joe Fiorito obtained details of some of the auditor’s findings a couple days before the official news conference releasing them to the public. His information was correct.

Days later Star reporter Robyn Doolittle obtained details of a draft report the auditor is to file in a month or so on the police department. We’ll soon find out that the information is spot-on.

In releasing the housing audit, Griffiths said that in his time as auditor general he had never seen as disturbing a case of inappropriate spending. “Frankly, it angered and outraged me.â€

From the mild-mannered Griffiths, this was strong stuff. And considering that the misspent money should have gone to help poor families, his words were a balm to their wounds.

Ford, of course, jumped on the findings. He had no role in the audit — the auditor general independently sets his work plan — but he wasn’t going to miss the opportunity to drive home his mantra of stopping the gravy train at city hall.

Blinded by their zeal to stop Ford, too many left-wing councillors chose to attack Griffiths rather than accept his findings and demand greater accountability. They support public housing, not any suggestion of privatization. They support big government, not Ford’s push to cut the size of government. They support more spending at city hall for city-building, not a contraction of the budget.

They lost the last election.

Ford won, promising the opposite of what these councillors practised for seven years under David Miller.

These councillors have a duty to provide effective opposition to Ford. And they do. They also have a duty to protect taxpayers, ahead of members of the TCHC board, ahead of city staff who may have failed to provide proper oversight in the spending of tax dollars.

But instead of focusing on the indiscretions of public service workers, the councillors seemed intent on protecting them, even in the face of the auditor’s findings. And instead of condemning staff behaviour, they wanted to focus on media leaks in the public interest.

The dissenting councillors intimated that Griffiths and/or staff may have leaked portions of two auditors’ reports to the media. They all but said Griffiths had come under the “undue influence†of the mayor. They cast aspersions on his integrity, even as they professed not to.

Then Councillor Adam Vaughan, unable to hide his contempt for the auditor general, gave him a lecture on integrity and public accountability and warned of an “audit process that is going off the rails.â€

Staring at Griffiths, an independent auditor with more integrity than a dozen councillors put together, Vaughan instructed him to “tighten the regulations and rules†in his department. Then he upbraided Griffiths, ending with:

“And if there’s a leak in his department, it’s on his watch,†Vaughan spat, jabbing his finger at Griffiths, a few seats away.

Deputy mayor and audit committee chair Doug Holyday jumped to Griffiths’ defence.

“This is a classic case of ‘shoot the messenger.’ You don’t like the message so you shoot the messenger.â€

Afterwards, unbowed, Griffiths said “one or wo councillors have a problem with what I do.â€

Try six or seven or eight who would throw him under the bus.
 
Royson James' article is ridiculous. Council's left did criticize the auditor yesterday because the report (and -- this seemed to be the focus -- the report on police paid duty) was leaked to the press before the targeted agency got a copy of it. That's not good precedent. This was a pretty minor part of the day, though, and unrelated to the vote to waive notice that everyone else is talking about.

That a group of councillors who mostly won commanding majorities in their own wards somehow 'lost' an election is kind of a weird claim, too.
 
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Royson James' article is ridiculous. Council's left did criticize the auditor yesterday because the report (and -- this seemed to be the focus -- the report on police paid duty) was leaked to the press before the targeted agency got a copy of it. That's not good precedent. This was a pretty minor part of the day, though, and unrelated to the vote to waive notice that everyone else is talking about.

First, neither you or Vaughan have any evidence that Griffiths' office leaked the report. And even if it did, that's a "pretty minor" offence next to the egregious financial misfeasance uncovered by the audit.

We have evidence of gross mismanagement of taxpayer dollars (dollars intended for Toronto's most disadvantaged), yet the left's only response is to impugn the integrity of the auditor and (as usual) bleat about evil Rob Ford.

Talk about missing the forest for the trees.
 
I agree. How could anybody but the most blindly partisan not see this? I mean, I totally get not voting for Ford and not buying into the agenda but this behavior just shows itself up for what it is, which isn't constructive for anybody at all.
 
Who's impugning the integrity of the auditor? Two reports from his office have now been leaked to the press and that's not a good thing. It doesn't have anything to do with his integrity.

There was mismanagement absolutely, but what was wrong with allowing this to go through the audit committee as it would normally? Or keeping the tenants who were elected by "Toronto's most disadvantaged" on the board while working toward fixing this problem? Why, exactly, is kicking people who had literally nothing to do with this scandal off the board and replacing them with Case Ootes such an integral part of this process? And what's the big goddamn rush?

It's like council's right wants people to be so outraged over the content of the auditor general's report that they stop thinking rationally.
 
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