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Jeez, sighhhhhhhhhh. Can we keep 'who's hot who's not out of this thread? As a woman, I don't come here for this, but rather to read how Torontonians feel about issues around the city and Ford.
 
God I hate Speaker Nunziata's voice and style. She's effin' rude and I'm going to rip out my ear drums annoying! I cherish the moments when John Parker takes over.
 
RC8 said:
But can you find The Star in Montreal?
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Can you find the Sun or its associated papers anywhere in Canada after this? See this link.

Sun Media closing 11 papers, cutting 360 jobs

Sun Media Corp. says it’s cutting 360 positions and closing 11 publications across the country, including its 24 Hours free daily newspapers in Ottawa, Calgary and Edmonton.

The Montreal-based company (TSX:QBR.B) says the plan is expected to yield annual savings of approximately $55 million.
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Rob Ford's speech is a ridiculous populist unsubstantiated bunch of blatant lies, as usual. "Subways will create countless jobs" right after the Chief Planner stated the exact opposite.
 
Where's the Fordites during this debate in Council? Your man is an uninformed, stupid, fucking idiot and he won't even answer questions directly. I can't believe my eyes. I expected some entertainment and fireworks but this is unbelievable.
 
He's never been a bigger fool than today, and that's really saying something. He refuses, refuses, to answer questions directly on his own Motions - he just runs around in circles about taxpayers.
 
CowboyLogic said:
Glad someone is finally saying this.

Here's a little anecdote.

I'm a Ford supporter, as anyone here who's read my posts knows. However, all my family and friends despise the guy. Like, hate his guts. They take any and every opportunity to bash Ford for whatever, whether its his policies or his weight or his apparent intellect. You get the idea.

And yet...not one person I know (excluding myself) actually believed the crack allegations. Why? They all said that they didn't trust the Star and that the Star has it out for Ford. These are all people that despise the man.

Here's the thing: it does seem clear, when you look into the evidence and details, that there was something to the allegations. But guess what? Most people don't look into the details or spend hours a day discussing these issues like some of the members here do.

And for a lot of people - Ford supporters and detractors alike - the Star has lost credibility when it comes to the Mayor because of the way they've conducted themselves. For every real controversy, there has been several manufactured controversies (remember the magnet issue?). They've published articles which mock him for his weight, TMZ-style videos of the Mayor in his personal life (like that KFC video), fictitious stories with no subsequent retraction (ala Ford assaulted a kid), incredibly biased and misleading reporting (I remember them, during the last campaign, publishing the results of a poll which showed Ford was losing traction...which was three weeks old by that point) and political cartoons unparalleled in their viciousness.

Quite simply, the Star is the newspaper that cried "Wolf!". They have lost a lot of credibility and trust, whether you guys want to admit it or not. When half the city, well above what constitutes Ford Nation or even Ford supporters, doesn't believe the Star's allegations, its for a reason.

If it wasn't for the unprecedented campaign against him, the crack allegations would have sunk Ford. Fortunately, the Star's past conduct bungled this entire thing for them.
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Reviewing CowboyLogic's posts - btw, a handy feature - this seems to be where the discussion regarding the Star began. These are the examples you refer to later:

1 magnet issue - an example of several manufactured controversies for every real controversy
2 articles published mocking weight
3 tmz-style videos in his personal life
4 fictitious stories with no subsequent retractions, your example being that the mayor assaulted a teenager
5 publishing results of a poll which were 3 weeks old (this is an example of biased and misleading reporting)
6 unparalleled visciousness in political cartoonery

remember, the little boy who cried wolf had his flock eaten by a wolf eventually. there was a real wolf. i think that many of ford's critics are closer, if i may indulge in a different culture's mythology, to cassandra.

so..."I provided plenty of examples of the Star's ethical misconduct. All of them have been ignored here and people instead have either piled on about the KFC video or changed the subject." you'll provide the tmz-style videos, you've promised, but you still want people to address these examples?

1 the magnet issue - was this when the mayor ran out of the meeting to plaster magnets on people's cars? i don't recall the star making exceptionally egregious hay out of it - i remember reading one reporter who was somewhat amused but also actually kind of concerned about the mayor (was that dale? it's weird how dale seems to actually care about the man he has to report on) - but my mileage probably varies from yours somewhat. i do remember twitter getting bent out of shape about it, but that wasn't the star, that was twitter
2 i'll give you this one, because i just don't recall any article where that was the majority of it; sure, the star hasn't been the best in reigning in their inner editorial voice in some of their reporting, but they leave the objectionable stuff to their columnists. their reporting is far far more cut and dry. i'd love to see a link to an article in ye olde toronto star that is a reporter and not a columnist or editorial that mocks his worship's weight.
3 links pending as per cowboylogic
4 wait, so the star has published fiction, passed it off as reportage, and their ombudsman has yet to call them to task for it? hmmm, i may try to google this tonight because that is a serious accusation. i wonder how many major dailies in canada manage to get away with this kind of behaviour.
5 i don't quite know how to address your point about the poll being 3 weeks late and the star reporting about it...it's so anecdotal. can you try to firm up your case regarding this point? maybe link to the story, because the reporter might have had a good reason to refer to a 3 week old poll.
6 nothing, in your opinion, matches or parallels the viciousness of the star's cartoons about ford? ever? anywhere? or just in toronto? or just in canada's major dailies? perhaps you could be a little clearer. i'll admit i don't like most political cartoons (too much berkley breathed in my early years has ruined me for what passes for humour and delight these days)

the thing i find frustrating (jeez i've lost my will to capitalize, again) is that i can accept that all of this signifies to ford supporters that the star cannot be trusted; but no paper or media organization is free from these kinds of mistakes, if not these ones specifically. none of them are perfect. some are worse than others. some are better. there's a general aggregate of news that is more or less trustworthy, i think. i try to read across the spectrum to achieve that. the star is part of that. that it is singled out for these faults, i think, is political spin just as the general latte-sipper's disdain for the toronto sun tends to malign them. because if the paper you dislike because it supports your opponent can be painted as not trustworthy then you reduce the spectrum and shift it in your direction. it's also a handy way of edging out your competition - "don't read the star because they lie, instead read us and let us sell ads to you". although, in the case of the sun, today's news is a little sad because if that was a tactic of theirs, it didn't work.

i may hate the sun's reporting, but i feel bad for the staff and reporters.
 
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RC8 said:
Rob Ford's speech is a ridiculous populist unsubstantiated bunch of blatant lies, as usual. "Subways will create countless jobs" right after the Chief Planner stated the exact opposite.
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Except for in the downtown, how much development has there been along the Bloor-Danforth line since 1966? He's claiming that this subway extension (which cancels out the Sheppard LRT) will create so many jobs and spur new development. Nunziata just had a flipping fit because Ford is being challenged so hard and called a 5 minute recess.
 
dt_toronto_geek said:
Except for in the downtown, how much development has there been along the Bloor-Danforth line since 1966? He's claiming that this subway extension (which cancels out the Sheppard LRT) will create so many jobs and spur new development.
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Haven't you seen the huge skyscrapers that are cheek-by-jowl on the Danforth? You know, in Greekmegapolis.
 
Shelley Carroll was near a mike that was still on and just stated that 'The Mayor just learned that an LRT isn't on the road?' 'I'm not kidding/lying, someone just showed him' (something on a document).

Utterly unbelievable. What a fool he is.
 
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