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arksi said:
Really? I highly doubt Ford would have ever been elected if he was the way you describe him. Maybe he's been that way over the past few months because of his various handlers, but I've seen him be quite down to earth in a way that makes me understand why some people have actually taken a shining to him. I'd argue that it's actually the scripted stuff that he has the most trouble with. The guy tends to have a really hard time reading off a sheet of paper and always seems uncomfortable reading words that other people have written for him. It seems he's far better at talking one on one with people, at least those who are in support of him. He's got that George W Bush kind of thing about him that, for better or worse, some people actually react positively to.
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SFO is not entirely off the mark. Both the Ford's prefer a script, Dougie is just better at sticking to it most of the time, and can be a little more "off the cuff", however, neither are truly capable IMHO of actually being candid. Dougie and Robbie are practiced at putting on "skit", but it becomes increasingly harder when there is an interactive audience. A good example is the media, especially last Friday with Dougie.

Just look at Robbie with his pressers, they have become tighter and tighter, and now practically nonexistent in favour of "interviews" that are nicely scripted; especially ater the boondoggle of American news interviews.

The sloganeering never stops, and comes in handy to fill in for questions they do not want to answer, especially to divert from an issue. Another level of government's snafu works well, as long as it is not one that the Ford's don't support at the moment.

You don't have to be too intelligent for all this "truth speak", it's the crouds' willing to believe, because it's what they want to hear; shovelling shit is easy when your audience gives no complaints.
 
Forty Fs said:
Yup. And Ford's fans don't really see why it could be a problem for someone to be avoiding scrutiny with private money the way the Fords do (not just the parks, but donating their salaries, paying their own office expenses, Ford Fests and so on). They either think of things strictly in terms of money ("he can do anything he wants in public office, including criminal activity, as long as I'm not paying for it") or they like the idea of the Fords as a royal family scattering largesse on the peasants (or to use Doug's words, the "common people").
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This definitely makes sense to me. I've been feeling like there's a mob-tactic about them, but I don't know enough to make a proper correlation. I just read this on Reddit which expands on that and also seems to click.(http://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/com..._donations_to_fix_up_city_parks_raise/cdxdgkw)

"The Fords prefer the idea of self aggrandizing philanthropy to simply allowing the public to upkeep parks through taxes. I mean, how is Rob supposed to paint himself as a saint with his football foundation named after himself if the damn city actually funded sports in schools? How is Doug supposed to aggrandize the Ford Nation brand if the city has enough money to upkeep the parks?"

And:

"A common factor with a lot of organized crime and paramilitary groups (Mafia, IRA, Hezbollah etc.) is that they will start providing some form of social services, usually to fill a gap that they claim exists in state services. The purpose is to make people loyal to them instead of the State, creating a kind of societal Stockholm Syndrome. ("Sure, they executed a guy in my village, but he was a snitch and they also held a fair with bouncy castles for the kids!")"

"The Fords have been pulling the same shit for a few years now. For example, the city has a functional 311 service so it doesn't need the Mayor's office answering those kinds of calls - but Rob recommends that people call him instead of 311. Ford Fests would be another example of potentially dodgy behaviour."

"Of course, if people fall for it and allow services to be dismantled in favour of powerful folks largesse, they're screwed when said powerful folks come looking for payback."
 
arksi said:
Really? I highly doubt Ford would have ever been elected if he was the way you describe him. Maybe he's been that way over the past few months because of his various handlers, but I've seen him be quite down to earth in a way that makes me understand why some people have actually taken a shining to him. I'd argue that it's actually the scripted stuff that he has the most trouble with. The guy tends to have a really hard time reading off a sheet of paper and always seems uncomfortable reading words that other people have written for him. It seems he's far better at talking one on one with people, at least those who are in support of him. He's got that George W Bush kind of thing about him that, for better or worse, some people actually react positively to.
Click to expand...

Ford is good with chumming it up with BS smalltalk, especially if it's football related, but if he's required to say anything of substance he's simply incapable. I guess that's why he repeats things and concludes his mindless statements with, "and that's it".
 
Looks like Hains is earning his keep again: Torontoist Live Blog: Black/Ford. I believe Doolittle is live tweeting too.

edit/update. I'm glad this is being live blogged because Conrad seems to be as flexible with facts, as Ford; watching live would make me ill.
 
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betty183 said:
This definitely makes sense to me. I've been feeling like there's a mob-tactic about them, but I don't know enough to make a proper correlation. I just read this on Reddit which expands on that and also seems to click.(http://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/com..._donations_to_fix_up_city_parks_raise/cdxdgkw)

"The Fords prefer the idea of self aggrandizing philanthropy to simply allowing the public to upkeep parks through taxes. I mean, how is Rob supposed to paint himself as a saint with his football foundation named after himself if the damn city actually funded sports in schools? How is Doug supposed to aggrandize the Ford Nation brand if the city has enough money to upkeep the parks?"

And:

"A common factor with a lot of organized crime and paramilitary groups (Mafia, IRA, Hezbollah etc.) is that they will start providing some form of social services, usually to fill a gap that they claim exists in state services. The purpose is to make people loyal to them instead of the State, creating a kind of societal Stockholm Syndrome. ("Sure, they executed a guy in my village, but he was a snitch and they also held a fair with bouncy castles for the kids!")"

"The Fords have been pulling the same shit for a few years now. For example, the city has a functional 311 service so it doesn't need the Mayor's office answering those kinds of calls - but Rob recommends that people call him instead of 311. Ford Fests would be another example of potentially dodgy behaviour."

"Of course, if people fall for it and allow services to be dismantled in favour of powerful folks largesse, they're screwed when said powerful folks come looking for payback."
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Astute observations there. The Fords love to play themselves as the heroes against the enemies of the downtrodden. It's always played for show while they do whatever they can to make those people downtrodden in the first place.
 
voxpopulicosmicum said:
I took some friends and family to Big Pappas for dinner a few months ago. The place was absolutely dead at dinner time on a Friday, to the point where everyone said it has to be a money-laundering front. We were all mostly joking, as we had no knowledge of the identity of the proprietor.
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I'm not sure that you are talking about the same Big Pappas...but the location at 2982 Bloor hasn't been an Italian restaurant since...well, mid-January of this year at the very least - this is when it was changed to a business lounge. The lounge didn't take off for whatever reason and the place went up for lease sometime in March.

Timing may be suspect but I can say with 100% certainty it wasn't gutted because of this investigation!

Parties which may have happened upstairs I'm not privy to info about but downstairs...well, this is a lead not worth following. And, not defending DiBattista...just saying I know it was a lounge in late January and that business notion was abandoned within months.

** Apologies if I'm repeating info...catching up on many many pages here!
 
Robyn Doolittle's summary of the Conrad Black interview with Ford:

robyndoolittle ‏@robyndoolittle 2m
Over all: Ford began the interview talking about how sometimes he lies. And he finished with a bunch of lies.
 
betty183 said:
"The Fords prefer the idea of self aggrandizing philanthropy to simply allowing the public to upkeep parks through taxes. I mean, how is Rob supposed to paint himself as a saint with his football foundation named after himself if the damn city actually funded sports in schools? How is Doug supposed to aggrandize the Ford Nation brand if the city has enough money to upkeep the parks?"
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Great insight.

Brings to mind RoFo's recent thoughtspew on a two-tier health care system (vis a vis Obamacare). If i can find the passage I'll post it. It was along the lines of, "Why on earth should we be taxing people for health care? Why can't we just let them pay for it?".

Seems to me that both taxes and direct payments are still tantamount to personal expenditure, moron.

Of course, the tax-based (OHIP) system has the advantage of providing equal medical coverage to all, even the poor. Although I guess Robbie doesn't see that as an advantage, now does he.
 
Jado said:
Of course, the tax-based (OHIP) system has the advantage of providing equal medical coverage to all, even the poor. Although I guess Robbie doesn't see that as an advantage, now does he.
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We also have a huge advantage with respect to administrative overhead (less insurance companies to deal with etc), and purchasing power. Not to mention the harder to measure benefits of having a healthier society. If Rob Ford were a fraction of the businessperson he thinks he is, he'd realize that it's better for business owners too!
 
pattycakes said:
Robyn Doolittle's summary of the Conrad Black interview with Ford:

robyndoolittle ‏@robyndoolittle 2m
Over all: Ford began the interview talking about how sometimes he lies. And he finished with a bunch of lies.
Click to expand...
I used to respect Conrad Black, but him giving that idiot Ford the time of day changes that. I thought he may have been smarter.
 
Bennett000 said:
We also have a huge advantage with respect to administrative overhead (less insurance companies to deal with etc), and purchasing power. Not to mention the harder to measure benefits of having a healthier society. If Rob Ford were a fraction of the businessperson he thinks he is, he'd realize that it's better for business owners too!
Click to expand...

Yes, but we all know that ideological blowhards don't let facts get in their way. (Oh, hi Harper, I was just talking about you!)
 
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