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Kat_YYZ

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Serious, totally non-snarky question to those who know how the municipal gov't of Toronto operates: With a weak mayor system, how likely it that an unethical and crafty mayor could make some serious cash for self and others, related to (2) and (3) in Les's list?
...

I think it was Doug who said that in the bad old days of "gravy," the mayor gets councillors to support his projects by promising to give his support for their pet projects in their ward, which will help them get re-elected. While I loathe to give the Fords any credit, no one can deny that this does go on. I think they call it pork barrel politics in the U.S.

Now the Fords may have insisted that they don't do such backroom deals, and we know they don't really "play well with others" but who knows?? Maybe the falling-outs they had with some councillors who previously supported them (DMW, Ainslie, Mammo at times) have to do with promises made but not kept.
 

Kat_YYZ

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I agree. I don't hold with the more elaborate flights of speculation here, (but that's OK. It's the Internet). IMO, if charges come, they will be in relation to Lisi's extortion case. I can't see Rob involved in *anything* as sophisticated as dealer networks, money laundering etc. He's just not that bright. He also has big spotlight following him around all the time and a habit of running his mouth. Those aren't great attributes for an organized criminal. Besides, even people on the right side of the law don't want to work with him. Why would gangsters? They have even more to lose. Rob has little real power, so he doesn't bring much to the table. The risks aren't worth it. My two cents, anyway.

what about Randy? maybe if he is the head of the Ford Bros criminal branch, the gangsters didn't feel as though they were dealing with Tweedledum and Tweedledumber. they might have thought that having friends in places of power would be good and that Randy was in charge so there would be no problems.

We don't know what Rob was ranting about in that "murder rant" video, nor do we understand the context of Randy's "purse" or "perse" -- but... cracked out as he was, he brought Randy's name up for a reason.
 

CalgarianExOntarian

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The one thing that councillors have noted is that since Ford became mayor, there has been a change of tone with respect to spending - not that they don't want to do it, they just argue about it a lot more. So he has influenced the tone in that way, which has resulted in service cuts and increased user fees.\

Yep. I really think decreased quality of life for millions of citizens and increased cynicism and/or despair about government are the things RoFo truly ought to be held to account for, and he'll never be in court for any of that. With luck, if any future "Meryl Candidate" looks, sounds, or smells like him, they'll be rejected due to resemblance to The Beast. That would be the only silver lining to the present cloud.
 
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kbdid

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Ford's attitude is a disaster; fewer libraries (vs donut shops), the constant votes against grants for arts, immigrant services etc. Crap, immigrants bring in a ton of jobs and consumers. Of course, why would we expect him to do research?
 

OSS 117

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Probably weed or blow for sure. Or if Ford was bankrolling his ... enterprise, his cut maybe. Lisi hasn't exactly been tied to a lot of high-level shit, so if anything it would be pocket change to Ford, so it was probably drugs.

Doubt it'd be booze - Rob had no problems fetching that himself or sending people. Why smoke and mirrors for booze?

Could have been other drugs too, who knows - but we know Lisi deals drugs and we know Ford consumes drugs, not really sure what other regular underground 'business' relationship they could have.

Lisi could very easily be a middle man.
 

euler

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what about Randy? maybe if he is the head of the Ford Bros criminal branch, the gangsters didn't feel as though they were dealing with Tweedledum and Tweedledumber. they might have thought that having friends in places of power would be good and that Randy was in charge so there would be no problems.

We don't know what Rob was ranting about in that "murder rant" video, nor do we understand the context of Randy's "purse" or "perse" -- but... cracked out as he was, he brought Randy's name up for a reason.

If that is really what he was saying, "perse" or "persey" as far as I know it (and I know it), is just drugs that you have for personal use.

Like, "man can I grab a gram off you?" "sorry buddy, it's persey, not for sale"

Short for personal.
 

Honest Ed has a posse

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Okay, so what do we know?

We know that Blair and the TPS want to be bulletproof of "do your still beat your wife" allegations from Rottweiler Doug. We know the Crown has treated this like career cancer from day one and will only take it when it's literally a slam dunk.

Now it's been sent up the food chain for approval to take the political weight off of Blair.

Back on Earth, It's plainly obvious to me that Lisi is trying to play both sides for his own benefit. He's failing because the cops realize he's only useful as a snitch at this point. They know by now that Ford is in his death throes.

Seems to me the police are at their leisure right now. Fordco is dead as dirt.
 

Cooper

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what about Randy? maybe if he is the head of the Ford Bros criminal branch, the gangsters didn't feel as though they were dealing with Tweedledum and Tweedledumber. they might have thought that having friends in places of power would be good and that Randy was in charge so there would be no problems.

We don't know what Rob was ranting about in that "murder rant" video, nor do we understand the context of Randy's "purse" or "perse" -- but... cracked out as he was, he brought Randy's name up for a reason.

All due respect, Kat, but I just don't see it. Why would Deco need drug connections? It's a successful, apparently growing, company that provides well for the family. IMO, the closet thing we've seen to real corruption is DoFo's "background vision" thing on the waterfront. That was exceedingly slimey, but it more about making himself a big shot than lining his pockets. At least, that's how it looks from where I sit. Same thing with the casino. The Fords wanted a big-shiny to show that they are "important." I don't think they would have been interested in skimming, though I'm sure they would have soaked up the VIP treatment they would have received. Now that I think of it, though, they might be easier to take if there were after the money instead of undying adulation from the community. LOL.
 

CalgarianExOntarian

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We know the Crown has treated this like career cancer from day one and will only take it when it's literally a slam dunk.

Okay, I admit that I'm being a bit of an a-hole here, but I'm pretty sure that successful prosecution of a criminal case does not involve some lawyer forcefully throwing a basketball downward through a rim. Sorry for the cheap shot, but I've got to align myself with the apostrophe-does-not-mean-hey-whoa-here-comes-an-S crowd.
 

Les Nessman

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Okay, so what do we know?

We know that Blair and the TPS want to be bulletproof of "do your still beat your wife" allegations from Rottweiler Doug. We know the Crown has treated this like career cancer from day one and will only take it when it's literally a slam dunk.

Now it's been sent up the food chain for approval to take the political weight off of Blair.

Back on Earth, It's plainly obvious to me that Lisi is trying to play both sides for his own benefit. He's failing because the cops realize he's only useful as a snitch at this point. They know by now that Ford is in his death throes.

Seems to me the police are at their leisure right now. Fordco is dead as dirt.

Is it not true that the OPP investigator now being reported to is their top HOMICIDE guy?

Is Giroux not the TPS' top HOMICIDE guy?

If we know the above points to be true, then use your deductive critical thinking.

Next time hizzonor asks, charged for what, reporters should grow some cajones and ask, did you have Anthony smith whacked!
 

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All due respect, Kat, but I just don't see it. Why would Deco need drug connections? It's a successful, apparently growing, company that provides well for the family. IMO, the closet thing we've seen to real corruption is DoFo's "background vision" thing on the waterfront. That was exceedingly slimey, but it more about making himself a big shot than lining his pockets. At least, that's how it looks from where I sit. Same thing with the casino. The Fords wanted a big-shiny to show that they are "important." I don't think they would have been interested in skimming, though I'm sure they would have soaked up the VIP treatment they would have received. Now that I think of it, though, they might be easier to take if there were after the money instead of undying adulation from the community. LOL.

With respect, I agree: while I doubt the Deco board is the most ethical in town, the core business is legit. Have Deco employees, officers or resources been used in the commission of a crime or crimes? It's not too hard to imagine, but so far there's been very little to suggest too much. If I'm wrong, I would welcome correction here. Something like Lisi working at Deco... but then as someone (@wilnervision? @goldsbie?) said recently, Lisi's close association with the Mayor began at almost exactly the same time as Scott MacIntyre's relationship with the Fords took a hairpin turn for the worse. So Deco's not needed here; what's needed is whatever it was that MacIntyre provided until his incarceration. Whatever that was, it's not much of a leap of the imagination so much as one short step forward to wonder whether Sandro Lisi took up the mantle of supplier... of whatever it is that the criminal Rob Ford needs from these other criminals scattered liberally throughout his entire life. Is his brother Doug a criminal? He's certainly no fan of the law. Or reporters who ask questions and/or report things that were said on tape or happened on camera. Its not about truth, folks!

On a happier note: does anyone have a handy copy of that delightful picture of John Tory and Doug Ford playing cricket? I can assure those not familiar with the sport that the stances adopted by the players in question are... ahem, not quite cricket. How the hell is it that when I search for "doug ford john tory cricket bat" I am not immediately inundated with copies of that photo? I really don't get it. My google-fu has failed me.
 
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SecretSquirrel

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Is it not true that the OPP investigator now being reported to is their top HOMICIDE guy?

Is Giroux not the TPS' top HOMICIDE guy?

If we know the above points to be true, then use your deductive critical thinking.

Next time hizzonor asks, charged for what, reporters should grow some cajones and ask, did you have Anthony smith whacked!

It's a fair question. Consider, however, that for Ford's uniquely public criminal disintegration, we need to have the very best of the best on the case. By every account I've ever seen, that's Giroux for the TPS. I mean: consider murder. It is probably the most serious thing that goes on around town, from a legal & law enforcement point of view. That's why the best people should be there.

So, no: it doesn't have to be murder. It could be! It could be, but it doesn't have to be. Ford is detonating at such a hideous altitude that the fallout will be widespread. Don't forget: he's still standing - "not yet charged", (charged for what? CHARGED FOR WHAT?) not even for the vodka bottle or the park urination, anything else, anything else. The damage has already been done, after all.

We don't yet know the full extent of Ford's criminality. There are huge grey areas...

...but none big enough for him to slip through.
 
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CalgarianExOntarian

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Is it not true that the OPP investigator now being reported to is their top HOMICIDE guy?

Is Giroux not the TPS' top HOMICIDE guy?

If we know the above points to be true, then use your deductive critical thinking.

Is it not true that Rob Ford is a very high-profile criminal suspect? If so, do you not think that TPS and OPP would give this case to their most senior investigators, even if conspiracy to commit extortion is the one and only charge they think they can convict on? Further, if police had decent evidence about conspiracy to commit murder, don't you think the whole story would have moved a little faster than it has? Imagine the press conference: Oh yeah, we the police knew for months that Rob Ford had some guy whacked, but until we had an air-tight case we just had to let him keep on mayorin' ...
 
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