[JWBF]

Nice speech? Why bother responding at all if you just want to make a demeaning remark? I explained in detail why I believe Ford is not making decisions like an adult. And if you were paying attention, my post was in response to a similar dismissal of TJ O'Pootertoot's comments. It would appear some here would rather smack down anyone who isn't expressing unconditional hatred for the man.

It's explains nothing to say we are all adults and that none of our past life experiences make us irrational when we all know that they do.

I've met many an adult who has exhibited strange behaviour under stress. But rather than emulate the Fords who would have no sympathy for anyone in similar circumstances, I like to maintain a little of my humanity.

We can pretend that ford supporters are simply stupid or we can try to understand what causes people to like the guy. Failure to study the phenomenon of Rob Ford can only lead to repeated support for anti-social candidates from people who feel disconnected from our political system. They'd rather paralyze government than submit to what they think is a broken, corrupt system bleeding them dry.

First, I was being "demeaning" but rather dismissive of your arguments. Second, do you know the meaning of the word "speech"? And, lastly Ford is making decisions as an adult since those decisions are affecting us all supporters, and non-supporters. I want a responsible government and Robbie has shown that he is not capable of being it's leader, period.

If you would like to lead an argument in a rational manner then you should leave the emotionalism in your bag.

Thank you for re-enforcing my statements.

 

[Les Nessman]

Just need to clarify something......

The ITO is not all evidence that police forces have on the case? It is just info to obtain a warrant right?

I'm guess that TPS and now OPP have files of actual evidence gathered after/ as part of the ito! Therefore, for those not impressed with the ito info, rest assured(?) that there should be more info!

I'm guessing Donovan knows so much more and was not willing to talk to TPS, in case of becoming part of and derailing the case???

 

[Lucinda]

Thanks anne, for your insightful posting.

 

[Dubster]

For those interested in what must go into an ITO, this is a good resource http://en.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cana...nt_Searches#Procedure_for_Obtaining_a_Warrant

It needs to be pretty comprehensive and detail the nature of the potential offense. So unless it's in another warrant or it's in a redacted section, there is nothing much at all about anything beyond extortion.

 

[pud99]

See line 3.22 of R Ford's Compliance Audit as completed by Froese Forensic Partners.....mentions R Ford's monthly Deco expense spreadsheet and Deco's American Express card ( see EA13.1 and backgroundfile 55645.pdf)

There is no 3.2 in the Compliance Audit Report that is posted on-line by the City (part 3 ends with 3.159). There is a reference to a Deco credit card in 3.159, but it is a Deco card that is mentioned, not a card that is issued to Rob and paid for by Deco, which was the subject matter of my post - i.e., I was responding to the [apparently plucked from the air] suggestion that gasoline for the Escalade is paid for by Ford using a credit card that is paid for by Deco.* I also could not find any spreadsheet linked to the posted Report. Of course it would be quite possible for Ford to have been charging some expenses to Deco before he was sworn in as the mayor, since up to that time he was professing to be employed by Deco (IIRC he claimed that he was spending about 5 hours per week working on the books and he apparently had the title of CFO, or something of that ilk).

(* It seems to me quite implausible that if the Deco credit card mentioned in the Report had been one issued to Rob the auditors would have failed to mention that.)

 

[EagleEye]

I'm not quite as resolute as Honest Ed has a posse and EagleEye in their condemnation of Ford the person. That doesn't mean that I, or anyone else who feels a smidge of sympathy for him is adopting a weak view of what Ford has become, but I do recognize that alcoholism is a terrible condition (I dislike the word "disease"). Ford is self-medicating big time and I have to ask myself why he does that? What pain is he trying to squash?

I snipped this because it's long but wanted to reply.

I get what you're saying and I won't deny that I have also felt sympathy for him at times. Even Jon Stewart has been worried, as has Robyn Doolittle who has been one of his victims. That's the difference between Ford and them, they can feel empathy. He can't. He has issues and it's up to him, as an adult, to put on his big boy pants and deal with them.

Dissecting this bit by bit:

We don't hear anything out of Donovan but we know he has had death threats. He keeps a much lower profile than both Dale and Doolittle. Dale continues to be called a pedo or perve on twitter, Doolittle gets death threats. She said someone called her, told her they knew where she lived and that they were going to rape her. She mentioned this a little while ago, either on tv/radio or in print, I can't remember which. Both Dale and Doolittle have chats on The Star's website, alternating weekly, and they have both been asked if they're scared, so that's on the minds of the general public. I am also a woman and about the same size as Doolittle and I've always worried that Ford or one of his thugs would do something to her. All of these people were just doing their jobs yet Ford's actions have done this to them. I get that being a reporter isn't always safe but none of them deserve this.

Then there are his current and former employees. If you were interviewing someone for a job and working closely with Rob Ford was part of their former job, would you trust them? Most of them are innocent of wrongdoing yet their names appear in the ITOs. They are caught in his web and will be forever linked with Ford. We know at least one had to stop work on doctors' orders so his health has been impacted. How many others are in the same boat, all for the sake of employment?

Finally, his kids. I don't know enough about Renata to really call her a victim but his kids are totally innocent. Imagine growing up as Rob Ford's kids. He leaves them and his wife and goes out to clubs and is constantly photographed with women in skimpy clothes. Renata's parents also have to be around the kids because someone has to raise them. Most grandparents want to enjoy and spoil their grandkids, not raise them. They must be sick with worry over all this. They must also wonder what will happen to their grandkids when they are too old to care for them.

I'm not even going to get into what he's done to us as a city. I just want to cite personal impacts.

So yeah, whenever I make the mistake of feeling a twinge of pity for Rob Ford, all I have to do is remember the lives he's impacted because of his actions and substance abuse. He could have told his mom and brother at any time that he had problems or that he didn't want to be mayor, but he didn't. His entire family shares some of the blame but the bottom line is, it's on him.

 

[Edward]

^ It is on him yet you see they all have that its us against the world attitude. The "its your fault I'm like this" attitude. The classic addiction personality is being displayed by the Mayor. Addicts in the throes of their addiction always blame everyone else for their situation. He's a long way from the realization that its on him.

 

[CityPlaceN1]

He does need help. Will he understand before its too late?

 

[EagleEye]

I know Donovan's wife and kids were threatened by someone traced back to Bill & Sons towing. And countless people suspected of talking to media received death threats from Fords goons. So hard to feel sorry for Ford.

Brutal, but not surprising. I have a friend who's a reporter and he actually uses a different name because he's the only one in the phone book with his real last name. I don't think we realize how dangerous being a reporter/writer/journalist can be. At least police carry weapons and have other means of self-protection. You wouldn't think you'd need that as a city hall reporter.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

The psychology at work here is legitimately fascinating. I don't think you have to excuse Rob Ford to either pity him or hope he gets help. In fact, I've long thought that some of the people here and elsewhere who hate him most were, ironically, caring more about him than enablers like Doug who would work him into the grave in an effort to preserve the family brand.

If Ford had done the right thing and taken a leave back in May, it would have left us all a lot less ammo. He still would have done a lot of bad things and many of us would have wanted him gone just for his political ideas, but if he'd legitimately gone away and gotten clean (and who knows, lost some weight in the process!) -if he had a REAL "come to Jesus" moment, he could have come back by now and hit the campaign trail running.

IMHO he has neither the intelligence nor the skills to be mayor, nor does he have a personality conducive to what a Mayor of Toronto needs, nor do I believe in his ideology. That said, the same can be said of other politicians who do not also carry with them his personal and substance abuse issues. the fact is, he did not take a leave in May and EVEN IN NOVEMBER he might have been able to salvage some dignity but instead dug himself in more deeply. I don't think you have to be Carl Jung to see how much of this stems from daddy and mommy issues, nor from the terrible advice he is receiving from Doug and others. It's sad to see what's happened to the city and it's sad to see just how much of a misguided, deluded paper tiger Rob is (and how much people around him - from Doug to the selfie-takers exploit and perpetuate that, treating him like their own personal circus freak).

It was his choice not to resign, ultimately. It was his choice to lie about the video when he knew that not only was there a video but that there was a whole other layer of gang and drugs involvement that was bound to come out in the fullness of time. Then, he made things exponentially worse with the extortion etc. and even as he knows the police are following him in an airplane, he digs himself deeper and volunteers that he has nothing else to hide when he undoubtedly knows he did. In the process, he put himself and the city at risk and made both a laughingstock. All of this was his to end at any time. And, as I said above, it would have been the smart move for his own health to do so but he did not care that WE cared more about his health, so determined was he to self-immolate between last May and Oct. 27. He would have had a better chance at staying mayor if he'd taken a month or two last summer but he chose to stick it out, and hold on to the reigns of power, such as they were. In his mind, perhaps it was short-term pain for long-term gain but it's really been the opposite.

So, I don't pardon him for any of these offences. He had opportunities, as he got in increasingly over his head, to seek help or to take it when offered. As someone with a substance abuse problem, I understand that it's possible it's not as clear to him as to others what is going on but when a whole city, comedians and really the whole world except Mommy Dearest are telling you to get help, it's the smart thing to do - even if in your own small mind it's just for the "optics." He should pay, therefore, for the damage he has done.

But I still think he is a victim, at least psychologically, in terms of being pushed out there into this world and certainly it's clear that the familiga was less concerned with his personal well-being than his continued reign as mayor. This does not excuse anything he has done but it is worth remembering he is not the lone, or necessarily prime victim here. He's not an EVIL person, just an obstinate, small-minded one. It's like a chain of victimization. My hope for him is not that he is found dead in a ditch but that he gets the help he needs.

I've said before that Doug and he have so built up Oct. 27 in their minds that I can only imagine how terrible he will feel on Oct. 28. It's not a leap to suggest he would have suicidal thoughts without proper support. I will be happy he is gone, so the city can move on but I won't be happy about his personal suffering. If he is charged, he will deserve it and if/when he goes to jail I will be happy about that too, for the city. He will have the opportunity to pay for his crimes and, if he hasn't done it yet, to confront his substance abuse issues. He could still come out of this a better, more whole person. I'd say he could maybe even live a happy life as a football coach but I suppose a criminal record will make that daunting and he will have to consider what kind of life he could have had if only....but thinking about that doesn't bring me any kind of schaudenfreude. I just want us all to get past this and come out the other end whole.

 

[zang]

I have some family that jibes with the Fords. Dad made a big business from nothing, on his own. After that it was all about respecting the fact.

It's fairly well displayed that the family has created its own mythos. Doug Ford, Sr. did not create the business on his own. He had a co-founder who the Fords have pretty much tried to erase out of history, but I'm sure they believe it was all dad's hard work anyway that made that company.

My father and I had a lousy relationship (my mother married an actual sociopath, after all), and though I've seen other families where the father is well-revered, I've never seen one that deifies the patriarch like the Fords do. It's almost as though the family were a cult, and "L.Ron" dying meant that suddenly nary a single blight should appear in his history. It's creepy.

 

[Greg Banks]

There is no 3.2 in the Compliance Audit Report that is posted on-line by the City (part 3 ends with 3.159). There is a reference to a Deco credit card in 3.159, but it is a Deco card that is mentioned, not a card that is issued to Rob and paid for by Deco, which was the subject matter of my post - i.e., I was responding to the [apparently plucked from the air] suggestion that gasoline for the Escalade is paid for by Ford using a credit card that is paid for by Deco.* I also could not find any spreadsheet linked to the posted Report. Of course it would be quite possible for Ford to have been charging some expenses to Deco before he was sworn in as the mayor, since up to that time he was professing to be employed by Deco (IIRC he claimed that he was spending about 5 hours per week working on the books and he apparently had the title of CFO, or something of that ilk).

(* It seems to me quite implausible that if the Deco credit card mentioned in the Report had been one issued to Rob the auditors would have failed to mention that.)

See page 18 of the Froese report scroll down to paragraph 3.22....."campaign related credit card"....surmise what you will....

 

[adma]

Rob has backed himself so far into a corner of his own making, that I wouldn't be surprised if he has a complete psychotic break over the next few weeks or months ahead.

He'd more likely barricade himself into his office than resign at this point.

 

[zang]

First, I was being "demeaning" but rather dismissive of your arguments. Second, do you know the meaning of the word "speech"? And, lastly Ford is making decisions as an adult since those decisions are affecting us all supporters, and non-supporters. I want a responsible government and Robbie has shown that he is not capable of being it's leader, period.

If you would like to lead an argument in a rational manner then you should leave the emotionalism in your bag.

Thank you for re-enforcing my statements.

Trying to explain the pathos within the family isn't justifying his actions, nor dismissing your beliefs that he's an adult and makes his own decisions.

 

[toonderly]

Nice speech, but I will be brief, he is an adult surrounded by adults, and makes decisions as an adult.

At least half the time I am sure that he completely lacks the capacity to function as an adult in any meaningful way.

It occurred to me last night that my employer requires me not only to sign documents indicating that I have read and understand things like the Code of Conduct, but also to go through training and quizzes to demonstrate that I actually have some understanding for their records. Should the city have to administer the same sort of thing for councillors and the mayor, and if so would that have to be mandated by the province?