[bobolink]

1.) Did anyone in the Ford camp ever say the word rehab? I heard "professional help". I have only heard the media speculate about Rehab. Further, many here have pointed out that they have never actually admitted to a problem with drugs - only alcohol.

The lawyer said Rob had checked into rehab. For what that is worth.

Your second point makes sense to me.

 

[casita]

A couple of nagging thoughts.

1.) Did anyone in the Ford camp ever say the word rehab? I heard "professional help". I have only heard the media speculate about Rehab. Further, many here have pointed out that they have never actually admitted to a problem with drugs - only alcohol.

2.) Has anyone else considered the possibility that the Ford family may be trying to pull the plug on Rob the politician because it has become painfully obvious that he can't win the election? Despite the public bravado and attempts to pretend that they have any real chance of winning the election, the only person who probably believes it still is Rob himself. The rest are a little smarter and must be seeing the writing on the wall by now. The support they enjoyed in the last election has eroded. The business community, high profile conservatives, everyone but the hardest core bat-shit crazy wing-nuts have abandoned them.

As the Fords are incapable of admitting defeat, humility or going out with grace, it would not surprise me if their idea of getting out while saving face was to pull Rob out of town, concoct a vague story to remove him, and then in 30 days Doug could return to say that the problem is too complicated to solve in 30 days Doug could come out to announce that Rob really wants to continue but his doctors insist that he must continue his vague "professional help".

With Rob going on benders every weekend, barely working, going out on his own to be photographed with young girls and jumping into cabs with strangers, getting caught smoking crack, he has become a loose cannon and even Doug has to be put off by his behaviour. The new video and audio, the corruption rumours with lobbyist Musik, the ongoing criminal investigation have all but assured a bleak future for Rob's political chances.

Rob is showing signs that he has lost interest in being Mayor. Doug still has ambitions and (erroneously) believes he has a shot at a future in politics. Showing himself as the doting brother during this difficult time frames him as a good family man (a conservative wet dream). Win-win for both of them if you ask me.

They reverse roles with each other? Councillor > Mayor. Mayor > back to Councillor. As you say, a win-win. For them that is.

 

[TOBorn]

2.) Has anyone else considered the possibility that the Ford family may be trying to pull the plug on Rob the politician because it has become painfully obvious that he can't win the election? Despite the public bravado and attempts to pretend that they have any real chance of winning the election, the only person who probably believes it still is Rob himself. The rest are a little smarter and must be seeing the writing on the wall by now. The support they enjoyed in the last election has eroded. The business community, high profile conservatives, everyone but the hardest core bat-shit crazy wing-nuts have abandoned them.

As the Fords are incapable of admitting defeat, humility or going out with grace, it would not surprise me if their idea of getting out while saving face was to pull Rob out of town, concoct a vague story to remove him, and then in 30 days Doug could return to say that the problem is too complicated to solve in 30 days Doug could come out to announce that Rob really wants to continue but his doctors insist that he must continue his vague "professional help".

With Rob going on benders every weekend, barely working, going out on his own to be photographed with young girls and jumping into cabs with strangers, getting caught smoking crack, he has become a loose cannon and even Doug has to be put off by his behaviour. The new video and audio, the corruption rumours with lobbyist Musik, the ongoing criminal investigation have all but assured a bleak future for Rob's political chances.

Rob is showing signs that he has lost interest in being Mayor. Doug still has ambitions and (erroneously) believes he has a shot at a future in politics. Showing himself as the doting brother during this difficult time frames him as a good family man (a conservative wet dream). Win-win for both of them if you ask me.

This makes sense to me, although
1) picturing Doug Ford as mayor strains credulity, and
2) the collective brainpower of the entire Ford clan would fail to dazzle an ox.

 

[OSS 117]

It works wonder for those who are sincerely willing and able to get better and accepting of their own vulnerability. Most of us (I think) don't want to see him dead in a ditch and so we'd like to think this is really what he's going through. But, sadly, the statement they put out gives no sense of rock bottom and there is clearly a lot of skepticism here. I'd like to think he's really in rehab but....I can't be sure, and that's his fault, not mine.

30 days can be enough to detox but it wouldn't be enough to get on a new path unless Rob has a real breakthrough. I don't know about anyone else here but I'm not a shrink. That said, I think it's pretty clear he suffers from narcissism, mommy issues, daddy issues, pathological lying and who knows what else on top of the substance issues. He, very sincerely, needs ongoing therapy and, again, that's not going to have any meaning unless he is sincerely committed to it.

There is nothing we've seen in his personality that suggests he's capable of that kind of breakthrough but I'd like to think he's actually had it. This city will go on, and he will lose and I don't forgive or condone what he's done to this city. But simply as a human being, I have no desire to open my paper one day in the next few months and hear the he OD'd or jumped off a bridge or had a heart attack. So, in that context I wish I could believe he's really starting to get right. I'm hovering around 50/50 right now.

You know where they have really successful methods of keeping addicts off drugs? High security penitentiaries. Which is where Rob should be, not an expensive rehab facility (if that's that's actually where he is). If Rob was just an addict, liar, and an asshole, I'd wish him a successful recovery. But because he's also a violent woman (and Sandro) beater, all I hope for him is a nice, long, prison stretch.

 

[OSS 117]

I think it's dangerous to believe only simple minded people find Ford appealing. For example, a friend in his 40s with a degree in engineering, a masters in business, a business owner and Italian, still supports Ford even today. I shake my head unable to understand. I have sent him links to 2 articles by Matt Elliott debunking Ford's claims and robfordfacts. We'll see if that changes his mind. Not holding my breath because if everything to date hasn't changed support level I have no idea what will.

People can be well educated and still off their rockers.

 

[anne]

That's a lovely bit of dramatic nonsense, but downtown Toronto was never much of a factory town in the way that Detroit was. That's Hamilton, London, Oshawa, and all kinds of smaller places. It' true they have had a rough time of it, but that's not really an argument in favour of the kind of urban decay that happened it the core of Detroit. More and more companies (like Google for instance) are moving jobs into downtown because it's a desirable place to be. We are adding corporate space, not just condos, downtown. Also, we have a film industry, two growing universities downtown, etc...

In short, this is a stupid claim to make about downtown Toronto. There is no parallel to Detroit at all. Also, Dutch disease is about to be cured. The dollar is plummeting, and guess who that benefits.

Good points. I'm not sure why anyone would think Toronto is anything like Detroit, or could be. Detroit's economy is highly dependent on the automotive industry. Toronto is much more diverse and thus would be resistant to a sudden and catastrophic meltdown of a single sector.

I'll go on record to say that I am uncomfortable with the use of a word like "underclass" to describe anyone. Ford's supporters are disaffected with politics, authority figures and public institutions but there is no evidence that would peg them as poor or disadvantaged - or whatever "underclass" is supposed to mean. Anyone who has viewed the facebook profiles of staunch supporters will find a professor, a nurse, people from the suburbs, high school kids - there doesn't seem to be a specific type. The common thread is they tend to believe that the media lies, other politicians are irredeemably corrupt, government is bloated, public workers have it too good and don't deserve it, and that Ford's personal problems are less serious than the waste of other levels of government. They tend to rail on about the Liberal gas plant scandal and are blindly partisan or simply angry about political waste across the board regardless of party. Most of them when pressed can't offer up any details beyond the headlines.

voxpopulicosmicum has also brought up a good point; "I would have thought him seeking treatment would have helped his approval " The few people I know who say they liked Ford, even after the first crack smoking video came out, have their own issues with booze or drugs (or racism, sexism, or homophobia). Seeing Ford behave the way he does gives them some validation. They don't make the connection that being drunk on the job is unacceptable because too often, they too get high or drunk at work and don't wish to be condemned for it. Seeking treatment would be an admission that addictions are not acceptable and it bursts their denial bubble. Has anyone else noticed this with people who were supportive?

 

[anne]

People can be well educated and still off their rockers.

Sometimes well educated, career people know less about what's going on because they are too busy. Ask a guy who's studying for a medical degree if he knows x or y detail about the Ford situation. You'll get a blank stare for sure.

With any luck, he'll read what Kat's Meow sent and change his mind.

 

[OSS 117]

The lawyer said Rob had checked into rehab. For what that is worth.

Your second point makes sense to me.

Hotmail lawyer says a lot of things, but I don't think he's really kept in the loop.

 

[OSS 117]

Sometimes well educated, career people know less about what's going on because they are too busy. Ask a guy who's studying for a medical degree if he knows x or y detail about the Ford situation. You'll get a blank stare for sure.

With any luck, he'll read what Kat's Meow sent and change his mind.

Oh sure, but I mean there are a lot of well-educated people who believe in ghosts or 9/11 conspiracies, or whatever. Being educated doesn't make you immune from weird ideas, if that's what you're prone to. There's also the factor of people taking a side in an issue simply because they don't like the people taking the other side. I think there's a lot of that in Ford's case.

 

[CalgarianExOntarian]

You know where they have really successful methods of keeping addicts off drugs? High security penitentiaries. Which is where Rob should be, not an expensive rehab facility (if that's that's actually where he is). If Rob was just an addict, liar, and an asshole, I'd wish him a successful recovery. But because he's also a violent woman (and Sandro) beater, all I hope for him is a nice, long, prison stretch.

I'm kinda skeptical about how awesome Correctional Service Canada is, re keeping contraband drugs away from inmates. And just dismayed about what drugs they're actually forcing inmates to take ...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/prisoners-given-powerful-drugs-off-label-allegedly-to-control-behaviour-1.2609940


Hard to see who gets released from that with the best possible chance to go straight ...

 

[OSS 117]

I'm kinda skeptical about how awesome Correctional Service Canada is, re keeping contraband drugs away from inmates. And just dismayed about what drugs they're actually forcing inmates to take ...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/prisoners-given-powerful-drugs-off-label-allegedly-to-control-behaviour-1.2609940


Hard to see who gets released from that with the best possible chance to go straight ...

I actually don't care if Rob Ford does drugs in prison as long as he can't hurt any innocent people while he's doing them.

 

[anne]

Oh sure, but I mean there are a lot of well-educated people who believe in ghosts or 9/11 conspiracies, or whatever. Being educated doesn't make you immune from weird ideas, if that's what you're prone to. There's also the factor of people taking a side in an issue simply because they don't like the people taking the other side. I think there's a lot of that in Ford's case.

I totally agree. Lots of smart people believe in ghosts, ufo's, conspiracy theories and angels. Has anyone heard that stupid show on AM radio (640 maybe?) where the host interviews U.F.O. "experts"? I've heard it 2 or 3 times now and I'm gobsmacked every time. Said with enough authority, too many people are willing to suspend common sense or doubt.

 

[anne]

I actually don't care if Rob Ford does drugs in prison as long as he can't hurt any innocent people while he's doing them.

A little jailhouse justice would be deserved but Ford would probably use his money and connections to bully other inmates. There's no place you could house him where innocent people would be safe.

 

[sublime]

Oh sure, but I mean there are a lot of well-educated people who believe in ghosts or 9/11 conspiracies, or whatever.

Well, this sounds like an indictment of our educational system, right? Whether education is meant primarily to make you proficient in a technical set of skills, or to make you capable of critical thinking, and steeped in an understanding of the scientific method. It's easy to envisage democracy stumbling because a balance of citizens aren't capable of assessment and appraisal.

The Kouvalis Effect.

 

[anne]

Well, this sounds like an indictment of our educational system, right? Whether education is meant primarily to make you proficient in a technical set of skills, or to make you capable of critical thinking, and steeped in an understanding of the scientific method. It's easy to envisage democracy stumbling because a balance of citizens aren't capable of assessment and appraisal.

Yes it does, but schools especially in my day, were always about obedience and memorizing. That someone can memorize a fact or formula long enough to write a test does not in my mind indicate intelligence. Critical thinking requires more from a person. It asks someone to listen to others, ignore dogma, prepare to be wrong and to adjust on a perpetual basis. It goes against everything our current culture likes to reward.

I get so angry when I see movies or tv shows that glorify stupidity and blind acceptance. Phrases like "Just believe" and "it was meant to be", or dare I say it "god fearing" are intended to indicate character and inner-strength but are nothing more than praise of magical thinking. It has no place in a modern world. We are breaking through barriers in almost every area of science yet more and more people succumb to nonsensical thinking.

People are not capable of assessment and appraisal, not because they lack intelligence, but because they are bombarded from all sides with messages that call critical thinking "close-minded". How many times have you heard those words when you try to question homeopathy or religion? "You will never get it because you have a closed mind!" Or, "If you just open your heart, (unprovable claim here) will come to you". Combine this problem with the fact that once-respected authority figures like newspapers, doctors, politicians, even educators (creation as science in schools?), have no shame about spreading distorted and wrong information for ratings, money, influence, fame or power.

Bad role models and a repeated wrong message. It's the playbook for dumbing down a population.