[GenerationW]

It is exhausting trying to understand these people.

What's to understand? They're nuts!

 

[ttk77]

Also worth mention: Found some descriptions of the Tim Hortons divine apparition event that say some people saw a black car. Perhaps Doug driving Rob in the Navigator? (That would allow Doug to construct an elaborate edifice made of horseshit on the armature of a small shred of truth - 'I was there'.)

Though if he was driving the car that still leaves the question of how he got downtown in time to be in council for 9:45.

 

[kbdid]

If true he's in treatment the Muskoka Recovery Centre/Resort is looking more likely:

A complete Drug and Alcohol free Recreational Resort facility located in the North Muskoka/ParrySound region of Ontario.
We have complete Medical Detox(specializing in Opiate withdrawal as well as full medical care for withdrawal from drugs and alcohol) services available in our Toronto
Location before you come to our Recreational Resort Facility.

With the usage of specialized treatments and therapies like Cognitive Behaviour Therapy, Expressive Therapy, Art Therapy, message therapies and reiki, etc, we have
gifted new rays of hope to many clients. We also offer recreational activities like watersports, hiking, fitness, horseback, boating to name a few. All mentioned is why;
we have one of the highest success rates and lowest relapse rates in the country. Muskoka Recovery Center offers exclusive and effectual recovery programs as per
every individual’s case complexity. Once the individual chooses us as his recovery partner, we arrange an intervention session with him to understand the case
complexity and address further treatment accordingly.

Detox and a bit of treatment in TO - insert Timmy's break - off to the "resort"? They advertise as unconventional. Looks like detox, followed by summer camp with therapists.

 

[newearthling]

Numerous studies have been done on acupuncture. They're all over the place, but the more recent empirical studies say it does nothing more than sheer placebo effect.

There's a fabulous article by Yale neurology professor Dr. Steven Novella (also a huge advocate of evidence-based medicine):

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/acupuncture-doesnt-work/

It has worked for me numerous times. I had a bad case of sciatica 10 years ago. I went to a massage therapist and a chiropractor, and both were not able to alleviate the pain. After going to a TCM Dr. and receiving acupunture once, it was gone.
I have been hit by two cars while riding my bike. The second time was quite serious, with many months of recovery. Acupuncture was instrumental in pain management afterwards, both times.

It absolutely worked better than a placebo for me, and for many other people I know. The only study I have read was a German one, which stated that acupuncture, even sham acupuncture) worked better conventional therapies (drugs, physio, and exercise). In different studies, prayer has shown to have had an effect as well. The placebo effect shows how powerful one's attitude toward recovery and healing is.

It doesn't work for everyone that is true. When my brother had back pain, it didn't work for him. What the TCM DR told him was if it doesn't work for you after 3 tries, then it won't be helpful at all. (A much more honest way of providing health care, than getting people addicted to pain killers!)

For most of the people that I know who have used it, it has worked close to 75 or 80% of the time. (Granted, I know people who are more open to alternative medicine.) It worked for me 100%, and I would recommend it to anyone who has pain to at least try it.

 

[pud99]

He checked in to the clinic a few days before the Tims sighting. I can think of a whole host of reasons as to why he might've been back in T.O. Tuesday if that was him. He's unpredictable!

Thanks (amongt other things so that we will waste no more idle speculation on the most recent hypotheses). Not to suggest disclosing what you cannot, but isn't it the case that, to be back in Toronto on Tuesday, you have to be saying that the clinic is outside of Toronto? (Not necessarily "nowhere near the GTA" as chronic liar Doug says, but outside of Toronto as we normally define it.)

 

[VTB]

He checked in to the clinic a few days before the Tims sighting. I can think of a whole host of reasons as to why he might've been back in T.O. Tuesday if that was him. He's unpredictable!

So the clinic is NOT in TO??

 

[pud99]

Though if he was driving the car that still leaves the question of how he got downtown in time to be in council for 9:45.

Yes. I noted that in my follow-up post above at 14:05. But in any event, based on Jimmi T we can give up looking for the edge pieces of that jigsaw puzzle.

 

[Dubster]

I don't know what to believe. This is fucked up. Ford was in an in-patient clinic where he's able to make and receive phonecalls. Apparently spotted in a Tim's which wouldn't be suspicious (people think they see people all the time) except for the fact his brother made up this bullshit lie, which basically confirmed it. So I don't know what to believe any more.

 

[VTB]

It has worked for me numerous times. I had a bad case of sciatica 10 years ago. I went to a massage therapist and a chiropractor, and both were not able to alleviate the pain. After going to a TCM Dr. and receiving acupunture once, it was gone.
I have been hit by two cars while riding my bike. The second time was quite serious, with many months of recovery. Acupuncture was instrumental in pain management afterwards, both times.

It absolutely worked better than a placebo for me, and for many other people I know. The only study I have read was a German one, which stated that acupuncture, even sham acupuncture) worked better conventional therapies (drugs, physio, and exercise). In different studies, prayer has shown to have had an effect as well. The placebo effect shows how powerful one's attitude toward recovery and healing is.

It doesn't work for everyone that is true. When my brother had back pain, it didn't work for him. What the TCM DR told him was if it doesn't work for you after 3 tries, then it won't be helpful at all. (A much more honest way of providing health care, than getting people addicted to pain killers!)
............................
For most of the people that I know who have used it, it has worked close to 75 or 80% of the time. (Granted, I know people who are more open to alternative medicine.) It worked for me 100%, and I would recommend it to anyone who has pain to at least try it.

One of the best test is to test it on animals. Our 14 yr old Lab was basically immobile. Immediately after the first treatment, he started running around like we hadn't seen him in years. He certainly didn't know what hit him so the placebo effect doesn't not apply.

The thing about acupuncture though is that efficacy is reduced over time. But it still had residual effect on him until he passed away at 15 1/2. He had monthly treatments.

 

[pud99]

http://www.muskokarecovery.com

END THE CYCLE OF ADDICTION WITH Muskoka Recovery

The Muskoka Recovery approach to LIFE renewal takes time. You will undergo an intensive 45, 60 or 90-day treatment program (depending on initial assessment and case severity), which will address every aspect of recovery, with available ongoing support for an additional 10 months. The drug and alcohol treatment program at Muskoka Recovery is limited to small groups of clients at any one time, affording the opportunity for one-on-one attention and personal monitoring of each individual's progress as well as ensuring extra special attention for every client that attends our program. We treat our patients with dignity and respect, as though we were treating any other illness. Outpatient and residential sober-living options are available.

You should know that through a regular 21 day OHIP government paid for treatment has less than a 20% rate of success at staying clean and sober after 4 months. We at Muskoka Recovery Center are very happy to say we have a better than 60-65% success rate with our complete 60 to 90 day program adherence, and the only facility in Canada with a guarantee.

 

[ryth]

It has worked for me numerous times. I had a bad case of sciatica 10 years ago. I went to a massage therapist and a chiropractor, and both were not able to alleviate the pain. After going to a TCM Dr. and receiving acupunture once, it was gone.
I have been hit by two cars while riding my bike. The second time was quite serious, with many months of recovery. Acupuncture was instrumental in pain management afterwards, both times.

It absolutely worked better than a placebo for me, and for many other people I know. The only study I have read was a German one, which stated that acupuncture, even sham acupuncture) worked better conventional therapies (drugs, physio, and exercise). In different studies, prayer has shown to have had an effect as well. The placebo effect shows how powerful one's attitude toward recovery and healing is.

It doesn't work for everyone that is true. When my brother had back pain, it didn't work for him. What the TCM DR told him was if it doesn't work for you after 3 tries, then it won't be helpful at all. (A much more honest way of providing health care, than getting people addicted to pain killers!)

For most of the people that I know who have used it, it has worked close to 75 or 80% of the time. (Granted, I know people who are more open to alternative medicine.) It worked for me 100%, and I would recommend it to anyone who has pain to at least try it.

This is the definition of anecdotal evidence. No-one is debating that you experienced what you did, but to it is insufficient evidence gathered in unreliable fashion to attribute to the acupuncture any more than the air you breathed that day.

Also this has absolutely nothing to do with Ford, so let's leave it at that and get to the matter at hand

 

[James_D]

Some of those testimonials are a little suspect. Case in point:

o John And Staff

Re: Burt K

We finally arrived home here in Mexico around midnight a week ago Monday. I drew up a new letter of commitment requiring him to attend regular AA meetings, undergo more medical tests and seek counselling if his doctors recommend it, stay away from the local bar except to play pool on Tuesdays and Fridays and NOT drink non alcoholic beer for at least 6 months. He refused to sign it as he said he did his treatment and successfully completed and wasnt prepared to sign anything more, so as per your instructions to maintain all bottom lines I moved in with my friend Ann Price the next day.

Yesterday I found an apartment near the courts where I play tennis and then came to talk to him. After discussing the new contract with him and refusing to change any of the clauses in it I asked him again if he would sign it or if I should sign a lease on the apartment. He agreed to sign so I made arrangements for my friend Ann and two other tennis friends to witness his signature at noon today. Mission accomplished! I moved back home with the understanding that if he breaks any part of the contract I will be leaving again.

He has not drank any alcohol since he left your center and he attended his first AA meeting here in Mexico on Monday. As I suspected, he knew 4 people at the meeting and all of the members are retired and about his age so he liked it much better than the meetings in Canada. He is going to another meeting tomorrow. His attitude has improved a lot in the last week and he looks and sounds much better.

Many thanks to you and your staff for all your patience and the great work you did with this defiant man!
Wish me Luck!

Lucille

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

One of the best test is to test it on animals. Our 14 yr old Lab was basically immobile. Immediately after the first treatment, he started running around like we hadn't seen him in years. He certainly didn't know what hit him so the placebo effect doesn't not apply.

The thing about acupuncture though is that efficacy is reduced over time. But it still had residual effect on him until he passed away at 15 1/2. He had monthly treatments.

I did acupuncture to quit smoking in the mid 90's (failed), and later for anxiety at an accredited facility - success, but it didn't last.

 

[GavinTheAlmighty]

That wouldn't explain the flight to Chicago though.

Easier to find a doctor willing to bend the rules in the States, perhaps?

I don't know where the gastric surgery thing is coming from but it sounds like complete tinfoil bullshit to me.

I'm owning this bullshit theory. I brought it up a few pages ago. If it's actual bullshit, then it's my actual bullshit.

I obviously don't know much about weight loss surgery.

 

[voxpopulicosmicum]

You should know that through a regular 21 day OHIP government paid for treatment has less than a 20% rate of success at staying clean and sober after 4 months. We at Muskoka Recovery Center are very happy to say we have a better than 60-65% success rate with our complete 60 to 90 day program adherence, and the only facility in Canada with a guarantee.

Do people not realize that they sound less trustworthy when they say things like ^that?

Who am I kidding, ^that reads very much like a green-sheet for an investment product, which is also paradoxically both 100% BS and is believed by many people. You can't cure stupid.