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Yes yes, keep going. The Matrix. Slavery is out of fashion because it's inefficient. Public sector workers are lazy. Poverty is inevitable so we shouldn't do anything to contain it or raise the minimum standard of living.

Your copy of Atlas Shrugged must have so many dogeared pages.
 
archanfel said:
Cancer is not a natural part of a society. it's a mutation of our body.
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mutation is natural. in fact, every living thing on this planet is a mutation. cancer is natural.
 
archanfel said:
Televised gladiatorial combat would be very expensive. From a viewer's perspective, it's no different from the movies we see anyway. In fact, I would think it would be less exciting since the combatants would be far more cautious whereas movie stars can dodge bullets.
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From what I understand, televised gladiatorial combat is doing great! When boxing wasn't bloody enough, some genius came up with MMA to slake the masses.

Also -- dude, you need to watch more Spartacus. The Romans rarely, if ever, allowed their gladiators to use guns, from what I've seen. Oh... that's right...
 
You said it, kiddo
Bugs_Bunny_Screwball.jpg
 
I would say it's less important to talk about the poor and rather how we treat them.

Every society has its poor. There just seems to be something about the pecking order of things in all human societies where those at the bottem exist and they get crappier treatment overall. But then again, societies have multiple layers of different groups and at the top is the dominant group and people are treated differently according to the status they hold in a society. Let's face it.

Nature and human nature isn't pretty.
 
Prometheus The Supremo said:
mutation is natural. in fact, every living thing on this planet is a mutation. cancer is natural.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Mutation is natural. Do we need a solution for mutation? No, we don't. First of all, it's next to impossible to do. Secondly, even if by some fluke chances we succeeded, it would be a disaster, since mutation is an integral part of human biology. It was mutation that made us human. Cancer is the result of a mutation. I guess you can say it's natural, but it's not necessary. (well, to our knowledge at least).

Poverty to society is mutation to human. It can generate a lot of negative effects. However, it is still necessary. Our problem is not poverty, it's how to deal with these negative effects. Therefore, it's my opinion, that any social program needs to be targeting a specific problem and goal oriented.

For example, lack of choices is a direct result of poverty and it has a negative effect on society. Therefore, the goal of the social program should be to provide choices. We can not make choices for people. However, if somebody chose to work hard or study hard to be successful, then he/she should be provided the opportunity to do so. The society should provide entry level jobs, loan, etc... However, the program must be goal oriented. It's not a charity, so if this person does not perform, then he/she should be kicked out the program. And if the person does succeed, he/she need to repay society the debt, either by providing jobs to program or monetary repayment. I suspect this program will cost very little if efficiently run.

On the flip side, if somebody chose to make a bad choice and caused damage to society, then he/she should be punished and more importantly repay their debt to society. And I don't mean staying in a cell for a couple of years. I mean penal colonies, performing highly-paid jobs with the majority of the payment going to society. Of course, this program needs to be profitable.

Of course, exceptions are to be made. No programs can function without exceptions. Even our justice system is not blind. Individual circumstances need to be considered and if it's absolutely impossible for an individual to make the necessary choices (e.g. birth defects), then financial aids should be provided so that they can live the rest of their lives peacefully. There's a big difference between less fortunate and less prepared.
 
Riverdale Rink Rat said:
From what I understand, televised gladiatorial combat is doing great! When boxing wasn't bloody enough, some genius came up with MMA to slake the masses.

Also -- dude, you need to watch more Spartacus. The Romans rarely, if ever, allowed their gladiators to use guns, from what I've seen. Oh... that's right...
Click to expand...

Should I remind you that Spartacus was performed by actors and nobody was actually killed? Although to be honest, the gladiator part was pretty boring. It's the political struggle where the senator and Crassus trying to auto-maneuver each other that was the interesting part.
 
archanfel said:
Exactly. Mutation is natural. Do we need a solution for mutation? No, we don't. First of all, it's next to impossible to do. Secondly, even if by some fluke chances we succeeded, it would be a disaster, since mutation is an integral part of human biology. It was mutation that made us human. Cancer is the result of a mutation. I guess you can say it's natural, but it's not necessary. (well, to our knowledge at least).

Poverty to society is mutation to human. It can generate a lot of negative effects. However, it is still necessary. Our problem is not poverty, it's how to deal with these negative effects. Therefore, it's my opinion, that any social program needs to be targeting a specific problem and goal oriented.

For example, lack of choices is a direct result of poverty and it has a negative effect on society. Therefore, the goal of the social program should be to provide choices. We can not make choices for people. However, if somebody chose to work hard or study hard to be successful, then he/she should be provided the opportunity to do so. The society should provide entry level jobs, loan, etc... However, the program must be goal oriented. It's not a charity, so if this person does not perform, then he/she should be kicked out the program. And if the person does succeed, he/she need to repay society the debt, either by providing jobs to program or monetary repayment. I suspect this program will cost very little if efficiently run.

On the flip side, if somebody chose to make a bad choice and caused damage to society, then he/she should be punished and more importantly repay their debt to society. And I don't mean staying in a cell for a couple of years. I mean penal colonies, performing highly-paid jobs with the majority of the payment going to society. Of course, this program needs to be profitable.

Of course, exceptions are to be made. No programs can function without exceptions. Even our justice system is not blind. Individual circumstances need to be considered and if it's absolutely impossible for an individual to make the necessary choices (e.g. birth defects), then financial aids should be provided so that they can live the rest of their lives peacefully. There's a big difference between less fortunate and less prepared.
Click to expand...

The point I was trying to make was that regardless of a phenomenom being inherent in a system, human beings are value creating and assessing creatures, and therefore, even though some things are 'naturally' occuring, they can still be valued as a problem.
 
Poverty is natural, so we should keep it. See...he's not a heartless libertarian ass-hat...he just loves nature!

You know, survival of the fitest and all that. Where the best and brightest elevate the species and the dregs are slowly eliminated through death. Let's be less like humans, and more like Hyenas!
 
archanfel, you claimed that poverty is acceptable because it is natural. somebody suggested that because cancer is natural, by the same logic, you should find it acceptable. you said no because it is a mutation (implying that it is unnatural) and then i pointed out to you the fact that mutation is natural.

now you say:

archanfel said:
Exactly. Mutation is natural. Do we need a solution for mutation? No, we don't. First of all, it's next to impossible to do. Secondly, even if by some fluke chances we succeeded, it would be a disaster, since mutation is an integral part of human biology. It was mutation that made us human. Cancer is the result of a mutation. I guess you can say it's natural, but it's not necessary. (well, to our knowledge at least).
Click to expand...


you said "cancer is not a natural part of a society" and you implied that the reason so is because "it's a mutation of our body", therefore, the message you were trying to get across is that mutation is NOT natural and in relation to the subject, therefore bad or unacceptable, unlike natural poverty which you think is acceptable.

also, whether a solution is obtainable or not does not determine if there is a need for a solution. and the point i was trying to make to you, whether something is natural or man made, necessary or not, doesn't determine if that "something" is beneficial or not, good or bad, acceptable or not.
 
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People say fire safety is important but it seems to me that it's a natural part of things. And if the fire department is just going to show up and put out your house when it's on fire anyway (for free), what incentive does anyone have to prevent their house from catching fire?
 
Good point. We should do like they do in forests, and let fires burn naturally in the city. It would allow for gradual urban renewal in the city, clearing away the old growth of housing, and replacing it with fresh stock.
 
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