k10ery
Senior Member
A bag tax would be a direct tax but it is prohibited under the Act. Just like all sales taxes except on tobacco and alcohol. Yeah, like booze and cigarettes aren't taxed enough already!
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A bag tax would be a direct tax but it is prohibited under the Act. Just like all sales taxes except on tobacco and alcohol. Yeah, like booze and cigarettes aren't taxed enough already!
OttoSchloss
Active Member
This seems like a really disingenuous attempt to raise his popularity numbers and direct the focus off his inability to govern.
But of course the media is all abuzz about it -especially the Sun and any outlet owned by CTV.
It's such an insult to the general voters' intelligence.
But of course the media is all abuzz about it -especially the Sun and any outlet owned by CTV.
It's such an insult to the general voters' intelligence.
sarnya
Active Member
And the fact this stupid rescind the bag fee thing does absolutely nothing to make this a better city. Has Ford had any ideas about actually doing anything productive or do we just have re-hash everything the previous administration did? The guy talks about wasting taxpayers money... how much money will be spent for this bag fee to be shot down by council next month?
I can already see what will happen. The media will get people all riled up over this trivial issue. Council will debate the issue and Ford will be present for about 10% of the actual discussion. He'll give some lousy speech towards the end of the debate where he repeats the words "gravy," "nickle," and "taxpayers" 7 or 8 times until council votes to keep the bag fee around 6:30 or 7pm. Ford will use this loss to reinforce his push to oust "socialist" councillors in the next election and to contact him about running under a "Ford slate" in 2014.
I can't wait until 2015 when the new mayor starts undoing every Ford undid so we can be back where we were in 2009.
Ramako
Moderator
I agree with the points made in this article by Royson James. Ford may very well be re-elected.
nfitz
Superstar
The prohibited taxes are listed in Section 267(2). I'm not seeing anything that prohibits a bag tax. Not saying that there is anything that doesn't ... I'm no lawyer ... I'm just not seeing it.
Glen
Senior Member
Exclusions, types of tax
(2) The City is not authorized to impose any of the following taxes:
........
5. A sales tax imposed on a person in respect of the acquisition or purchase of any tangible personal property, any service or any intangible property, other than a tax imposed on the person,
i. for the purchase of admission to a place of amusement as defined in the Retail Sales Tax Act,
ii. for the purchase of liquor as defined in section 1 of the Liquor Licence Act for use or consumption,
iii. for the production by the person of beer or wine, as defined in section 1 of the Liquor Licence Act, at a brew on premise facility, as defined in section 1 of that Act, for use or consumption, or
iv. for the purchase of tobacco as defined in section 1 of the Tobacco Tax Act for use or consumption.
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i. to iv. are the only exceptions.
grey
Senior Member
Why the five-cent bag fee works:
http://www.thegridto.com/city/politics/whats-the-problem-with-the-bag-fee/
http://www.thegridto.com/city/politics/whats-the-problem-with-the-bag-fee/
nfitz
Superstar
Ah ... okay. I see the basis for the claim. So I guess by that interpretation one could only have a bag tax for alcohol or cigarettes!
I guess the question is then, is a bag tax, a sales tax. I'm not a lawyer ... if a bag tax or charge to the city, is a sales tax, then it wouldn't be allowed. So I guess the current system will have to stay.
Though if the City really wanted to, I assume it would simply ask that the Legislature change the City of Toronto act, as it frequently does. The current system seems fine though. I'd think the administrative cost of actually collecting the tax, would be at least 5¢ a bag!
MetroMan
Senior Member
What Royson's article fails to take into account:
- Ford is no longer an unknown. Regardless of the available information on Ford, a lot of people didn't bother to read up on the candidates. Many Ford voters that I know tell me they wouldnt vote for him again. By the next election, he'll have had 4 years of bad front page press.
- It (likely) won't be a split race. Smitherman and Pants split the left vote after Giambrone's sudden departure left David Miller's election machine scrambling to remake the campaign around a man they didn't think could win while a large part of the former Mayor's backers defected to Smitherman who they thought could win.
- Ford was fighting against the establishment. In 2014, Ford will be the establishment. He'll own the last 4 years.
- While the 2010 election had the right revved up to vote in a conservative, the 2014 will have the center/left revved to kick what many see as the worst Mayor ever from office -- even many conservatives who see Ford as ruining the brand. A lot of those downtowners who skipped the last election would fall over eachother to cast their ballots right now if they could. I predict turn out will be much larger next election.
- Ford may not even be able to run. The result of the conflict of interest court case against him may not result in the harsh punishment of removal from office, but I think the case is so clear that at minimum the judge will impose a restriction from running for office after his term is up.
Of course, the largest variable that will in the end determine the result is: Who will run against Ford?
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k10ery
Senior Member
Ah ... okay. I see the basis for the claim. So I guess by that interpretation one could only have a bag tax for alcohol or cigarettes!
I guess the question is then, is a bag tax, a sales tax. I'm not a lawyer ... if a bag tax or charge to the city, is a sales tax, then it wouldn't be allowed. So I guess the current system will have to stay.
Though if the City really wanted to, I assume it would simply ask that the Legislature change the City of Toronto act, as it frequently does. The current system seems fine though. I'd think the administrative cost of actually collecting the tax, would be at least 5¢ a bag!
Good luck getting a bag tax through a minority legislature. Michelle Berardinetti doesn't seem to think it's possible and you'd think she would know
adma
Superstar
Actually, a lot of those Miller backers reluctantly defected to Smitherman because, in the end, he was the last best non-Ford choice standing. The problem wan't so much that it was a split race; it's that neither Smitherman nor Pants came across as attractive options to secure enough of the "middle vote" that floated to Ford. (And lest we forget, Smitherman had earlier positioned himself as something of a "relief from the Miller years" candidate, before Ford stole that thunder and forced him into being an ironic Miller heir.)
GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
If Ford wins reelection in 2014, it'll be because the opposition screwed up.
nfitz
Superstar
Wouldn't be surprised if it's a majority legislature by then with the by-election in Kitchener-Waterloo ... still, were doing hypotheticals on hypotheticals here ...Good luck getting a bag tax through a minority legislature. Michelle Berardinetti doesn't seem to think it's possible and you'd think she would know
MetroMan
Senior Member
My point is not that Miller followers defected to Smitherman but that with Giambrone's unexpected departure, they all scrambled like ants and split their effort amongst two candidates that they didn't think they'd be campaigning for.
Pantalone's (second) campaign was put together on very short notice and for a candidate that few believed in while others defected to Smitherman who few thought was worthy
This was like a top athlete who trained for 4 years for an Olympic games being sidelined and coaches running to different athletes who they thought had the best shot and training him in months what needed years to accomplish. That neither campaign was able to take down an opponent with so many obvious flaws shows that lack of preparation.
No doubt John Laschinger (Miller's campaign boss) is already grooming the ideal candidate and preparing a campaign against Ford. They'd have to be completely incompetent not to capitalize on Ford's utter train wreck with 4 years of preparation afforded to them.
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dt_toronto_geek
Superstar
Adam Vaughan has all but officially indicated his intention to run, so there's one. He's a high profile Councillor in the downtown west of Ward 20, he speaks well and is a pretty good debater. Many will fondly remember his father Colin, not to mention that between the two of them they had decades of exposure on CityTV, which will help with name recognition.
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