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sno man said:
Not just wi-fi though, if the phone has a voice and data plan, and data is on, if the phone has cell service it has internet.
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That is why (as I said) you would pull the SIM card (disconnecting the cell service). (What I said was that you would still need to shield it for wi-fi - still meaning even though you had pulled the SIM card, as I mentoned in the first place.)

If you just bag and tag a 'phone that has either live cell service or a live wi-fi connection, or both, then you will be vulnerable to all of the contents being wiped - unless you bag it in a lead- or copper-lined bag, not the usual clear poly evidence bag (or - which is where this started from - unless you wrap it in aluminum foil).
 
pud99 said:
That is why (as I said) you would pull the SIM card (disconnecting the cell service). (What I said was that you would still need to shield it for wi-fi - still meaning even though you had pulled the SIM card, as I mentoned in the first place.)

If you just bag and tag a 'phone that has either live cell service or a live wi-fi connection, or both, then you will be vulnerable to all of the contents being wiped - unless you bag it in a lead- or copper-lined bag, not the usual clear poly evidence bag (or - which is where this started from - unless you wrap it in aluminum foil).
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just helping put the dots back together ;^)

/sim cards are usually deep in the phone, turn it off (easy safe way all by itself to protect data, but then you need the password to get the phone working again once you turn it back on) take the back off, the battery out, and then dig the sim card out... A LOT of 'tampering' that a few layers of tinfoil avoid altogether.
 
Just for the sake of covering all of the bases: If you can get into the mobile device* then just hitting the airplane mode setting will cut the device off from access via either cell service or wi-fi. (A single 'button' or 'toggle'; takes maybe a few seconds to find and push it.) But, as already noted, if the device is protected by a password that you do not have then pulling the SIM card would not get rid of the risk of a remote wipe via wi-fi and you would be back to having to shield the device in order to avert that risk.

*A better term than 'phone, since the issue exists for tablets, etc. too.
 
sno man said:
sim cards are usually deep in the phone, turn it off (easy safe way all by itself to protect data, but then you need the password to get the phone working again once you turn it back on) take the back off, the battery out, and then dig the sim card out... A LOT of 'tampering' that a few layers of tinfoil avoid altogether.
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Not on relatively modern devices. It can be a great deal of work to get the battery out (if it is removable at all) but it is easy to pull the SIM card, because it is installed in a slot located on an outside edge of the device. (I can remove the SIM card from my iPhone in less than 2 seconds. This has always been the case for iPhones (>10 years). Same for my cell-service enabled iPad.)

ETA: And BTW, just turning a device off will not protect it from remote wiping. For example, you can remote wipe an iPhone or iPad using the "Find My iPhone/iPad" app regardless of whether the target device is on or off. Connecting to it wakes it up for the purpose of locating it, locking it with a password (if it is not already locked) or wiping it.
 
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pud99 said:
Not on relatively modern devices. It is a great deal of work to get the battery out (if it is removable at all) but it is easy to pull the SIM card, because it is installed in a slot located on an outside edge of the device. (I can remove the SIM card from my iPhone in less than 2 seconds. This has always been the case for iPhones (>10 years). Same for my cell-service enabled iPad.)
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Okay so Apple make the sims easy to get to. And have to admit I don't know all the devices, but my BB and 4 various Motos before that all had the sim card under the battery. Either way, I think removing the sim card would qualify as tampering with evidence. So back to the tinfoil.
 
pud99 said:
Not on relatively modern devices. It is a great deal of work to get the battery out (if it is removable at all) but it is easy to pull the SIM card, because it is installed in a slot located on an outside edge of the device. (I can remove the SIM card from my iPhone in less than 2 seconds. This has always been the case for iPhones (>10 years). Same for my cell-service enabled iPad.)
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Apparently, successfully getting information from these devices can quite complicated; the technology is constantly evolving, as new devices and network features reach the marketplace.

I found this document interesting -- http://www.mobileforensicscentral.com/mfc/documents/Mobile Device Forensic Process v3.0.pdf

I found that document in a link here -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_device_forensics

The Canadian Police College offers a course for law enforcement people -- http://www.cpc-ccp.gc.ca/en/csac
 
God damn Giroux, what I would give to have a look at your Brazen 2 case file at this stage. What in god's name do you have?
 
sno man said:
Okay so Apple make the sims easy to get to. And have to admit I don't know all the devices, but my BB and 4 various Motos before that all had the sim card under the battery. Either way, I think removing the sim card would qualify as tampering with evidence. So back to the tinfoil.
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Actually, many companies make the SIM card easy to get out.

And when I also had a Blackberry (which I did until about 5 years ago) I could flip the back off and pull the SIM card quite quickly (within some seconds).

I have my doubts that disabling a mobile device so as to prevent it from being wiped (which would be evidence tampering) would be seen by our courts as evidence tampering. It would not alter the data that is on the device or the data that is on the SIM card. It seems to me that it would be the moral equivalent of seizing a car that is running, turning it off and putting the key or fob in an evidence bag rather than leaving it in the car.

To me, the need to shield point comes down to the fact that if you need a password that you do not have in order to be able to quickly disable wi-fi (turn it off or turn on airplane mode) then you are at risk that the device has a live wi-fi connection and could be remotely wiped by that route - whereas there must be relatively few devices in use today whose SIM cards could not be pulled quite quickly, so as to cut off the cell service and prevent the alternative of remote wiping by that route.

PS: If you still have any of those Motorola 'phones: I think that The Antiques Roadshow is due in town soon. ;)
 
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Lucinda said:
Apparently, successfully getting information from these devices can quite complicated; the technology is constantly evolving, as new devices and network features reach the marketplace.

I found this document interesting -- http://www.mobileforensicscentral.com/mfc/documents/Mobile Device Forensic Process v3.0.pdf

I found that document in a link here -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_device_forensics

The Canadian Police College offers a course for law enforcement people -- http://www.cpc-ccp.gc.ca/en/csac
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Interesting reading, thanks for the links!
 
I think it was another Globe article. It may have been the 2nd one with the emails and business card.
 
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