[nfitz]

So your position is, that even though they are in favour of it, and have been pushing it forwards, we should be against them because they wanted to build the subway to carry the Eglinton RT first? They've consistently talked about starting the DRL late this decade, if someone would fund it.

 

[gweed123]

So your position is, that even though they are in favour of it, and have been pushing it forwards, we should be against them because they wanted to build the subway to carry the Eglinton RT first? They've consistently talked about starting the DRL late this decade, if someone would fund it.

Where in any of that did I mention Eglinton?

All I'm asking is, if Miller and Co support the DRL as strongly as they like to think they do, why was it not included as part of Transit City? Seems like a pretty simple question to me.

 

[GenerationW]

The main reason the DRL is now being studied is because the City went ballistic about to the proposed Yonge extension to Richmond Hill. Not that long ago, it looked as if Yonge was much closer to being approved and funded than it is now, and more than a few people thought construction would start either this year or next.

 

[nfitz]

All I'm asking is, if Miller and Co support the DRL as strongly as they like to think they do, why was it not included as part of Transit City? Seems like a pretty simple question to me.

The answer, which is also further up, because they wanted to complete Transit City first; likely because the surface section of Transit City costs a lot less than a new downtown subway line.

 

[GenerationW]

The answer, which is also further up, because they wanted to complete Transit City first; likely because the surface section of Transit City costs a lot less than a new downtown subway line.

Then if they truly support the DRL, and if subways are rapidly getting more expensive to build (or so we are constantly told), they are/were disingenuous and illogical. That the DRL should have come first should have been a no-brainer.

 

[gweed123]

Then if they truly support the DRL, and if subways are rapidly getting more expensive to build (or so we are constantly told), they are/were disingenuous and illogical. That the DRL should have come first should have been a no-brainer.

Exactly what I was thinking. Seems pretty logical that if you need something most, you don't put it at the bottom of the list, regardless of how much it costs.

Yes, certain TC lines are less expensive than the DRL, but I'm pretty sure we can all agree that the near $1B being spent on Sheppard would have been FAR better used going towards the DRL.

It strikes me as being really bizzare that people can say that Miller and Co support the DRL, despite the fact that they have placed much less deserving projects higher up on the priority list. The endorsement of the DRL by that group just rings hollow to me. "I support it, but I support all of these other projects more."

 

[gweed123]

The answer, which is also further up, because they wanted to complete Transit City first; likely because the surface section of Transit City costs a lot less than a new downtown subway line.

But Transit City is not an LRT plan, it's a RAPID TRANSIT PLAN. The very fact that the DRL was not included in this plan AT ALL (not even in a Phase 2 or 3), shows how hollow their endorsement of the DRL really is. At the very least, it should have been shown on the map, in the same phase as the Jane and WW LRTs. But no, it's nowhere to be seen.

 

[Asterix]

But Transit City is not an LRT plan, it's a RAPID TRANSIT PLAN. The very fact that the DRL was not included in this plan AT ALL (not even in a Phase 2 or 3), shows how hollow their endorsement of the DRL really is. At the very least, it should have been shown on the map, in the same phase as the Jane and WW LRTs. But no, it's nowhere to be seen.

Being cynical, the case for TC is that 'this would be great to help improve the city'. Kind of 'discretionary' funding from the province.

The case that soon can be made for the DRL is 'if we don't have this, the city will break (overloading of the existing subway)'.

Better to get the province to fully commit to the discretionary funding before they realize they have to also build the DRL.

Granted I too think the order is backwards (you need the DRL before you start funneling more people on to YUS), but this cynical interpretation means that both should be built instead of only one. Who knows if this is how the city politicians think about it.

 

[nfitz]

But Transit City is not an LRT plan, it's a RAPID TRANSIT PLAN. The very fact that the DRL was not included in this plan AT ALL (not even in a Phase 2 or 3), shows how hollow their endorsement of the DRL really is. At the very least, it should have been shown on the map, in the same phase as the Jane and WW LRTs. But no, it's nowhere to be seen.

There was no Phase 2 or 3. The plan as originally envisioned was to have been completed by 2021. There was no mention of the Transit City bus plan, or the SRT north of Sheppard. Does that mean the SRT is not rapid transit?

I'm not really sure what your point is. It's clear that the DRT became more prominent after Metrolinx pushed the Yonge subway extension, and both Metrolinx and TTC calculations showed that the extension would overload the existing Yonge line, however if the DRL was build from Danforth to Yonge, that the passenger demand on the Yonge line in 20 years, would be lower than today.

It seems both pragmatic and sensible that the DRL has gained some priority since then.

I'm not sure what twisted agenda you are trying to push here, but I don't see the need to start some strange narrative ...

 

[ssiguy2]

Miller and company never considered DRL as important or they wouldn't have had all their LRT dreams with no presentation of a DRL.

BTW kids let's clear up the definition thing. In NA streetcars are like the original system downtown and LRT means Light RAPID Transit not Light Rail Transit meaning near subway/SkyTrain speeds not just a ROW. St.Clair and Spadina are still streetcars regardless of their ROW because they are still relatively slow

 

[nfitz]

St.Clair and Spadina are still streetcars regardless of their ROW because they are still relatively slow

What about the Queensway, which moves more than twice as fast as Spadina, and at the same speed as the Transit City LRT lines in Scarborough (likely because it has the same stop and traffic light spacing).

 

[ssiguy2]

BTW, I just noticed Rocco's new road/tunnel plan and I must say it's bizzare. I think even Ford's friends would be shaking their heads wondering how you can stop GO for 5 years while building it to say nothing about how to pay for it. Rocco is out of the race by both the left and right wing. Regardless of your political persuasions everyone know a ridiculous and expensive scheme when they see it.

 

[gweed123]

There was no Phase 2 or 3. The plan as originally envisioned was to have been completed by 2021. There was no mention of the Transit City bus plan, or the SRT north of Sheppard. Does that mean the SRT is not rapid transit?

It wasn't intended as a multi-phase project, but it has certainly become that (SELRT, ECLRT, and SLRT gaining priority). So why not add the DRL onto the map? If it's as important as Miller and Co says it is, ADD IT!

I'm not really sure what your point is. It's clear that the DRT became more prominent after Metrolinx pushed the Yonge subway extension, and both Metrolinx and TTC calculations showed that the extension would overload the existing Yonge line, however if the DRL was build from Danforth to Yonge, that the passenger demand on the Yonge line in 20 years, would be lower than today.

It came to the public's attention when Metrolinx did the study, but many people know the DRL was needed long before Metrolinx studied it to say it was needed. The Yonge extension isn't the raison d'être for the DRL, rather it just brought to light how badly it actually is needed. Although for anyone who passes through Bloor-Yonge on a daily basis can tell you, it's needed today, even without the Yonge extension.

It seems both pragmatic and sensible that the DRL has gained some priority since then.

But clearly not enough priority to be included in Transit City. And if something like the Jane LRT made the cut, it must not be a very exclusive list.

I'm not sure what twisted agenda you are trying to push here, but I don't see the need to start some strange narrative ...

Are you kidding me? Let me spell it out for you: ON THE PLAN = IMPORTANT... NOT ON THE PLAN = NOT IMPORTANT. Since the DRL was not a part of Transit City, a plan drafted by Miller and Co, it would be logical to assume that Miller and Co believe the DRL is not important (despite what they say). Actions speak louder than words. Saying you support something is one thing, but it's hardly a ringing endorsement when you don't even include the thing you support on the plan you drafted!

 

[taxman]

exactly what I have been saying. Its great to see someone with a similar view. Streetcars are a nuisance and take up way too much of the road rendering it pretty much useless to any other vehicle. I agree keep them in certain areas for a historic appeal.....but having them run rampant across the city makes the city look old.

 

[nfitz]

It wasn't intended as a multi-phase project, but it has certainly become that (SELRT, ECLRT, and SLRT gaining priority). So why not add the DRL onto the map? If it's as important as Miller and Co says it is, ADD IT!

It was drawn on the map for the Big Move report. It's location hasn't been chosen yet. Presumably it will be on the map at the upcoming public meetings for that project; though likely just a shaded corridor.

I don't see why you are obsessing on this issue. It's seems like a very minor detail in the whole scheme of things. The DRL project has been going ahead since about May, with very little interest from the media, despite numerous press releases and comments from Giambrone.

But clearly not enough priority to be included in Transit City. And if something like the Jane LRT made the cut, it must not be a very exclusive list.

Would you prefer that they just drop the plan?