[nfitz]

Surely you'd have had to have lost a parking spot at each streetcar stop with the new 30-metre cars. If only 20 spots have been lost, it sounds like this would have happened even without the reconstruction.

Seems pretty minor ...

 

[junctionist]

Public transit could potentially bring in more customers for businesses, so it makes sense to make it as user-friendly as possible. It's really the disadvantaged who are quickly forgotten in these debates. It could really help seniors and the disabled, to be able to get on the new low-floor streetcars easier from the bumpout. Roncesvalles was never on my list of list of quick routes for driving anyway. In fact, its relaxed pace makes its commercial and social atmosphere quite attractive.

 

[StIdes]

It never takes 10-12 minutes to get from Queen to Dundas using the streetcars. FFS, I can walk this distance in under 15 minutes!

StIdes, You do not speak for the majority of shop owners along this stretch, nor even a fraction of the residents who actually spend money along Roncy so stop pretending like you do.

Umm its a 2 Km stretch. How do you figure it doesnt take 10-12 minutes in a street car? Maybe at 1:00am its a shorter time but I'm talking about peak times. You can walk 2km in 15 mins? considering that is about double the human walking speed. Damn your a fast walker!

Surely you'd have had to have lost a parking spot at each streetcar stop with the new 30-metre cars. If only 20 spots have been lost, it sounds like this would have happened even without the reconstruction.

Seems pretty minor ...

If 10% loss is minor how about you give me 10% of your yearly salary? Oh wait you wouldnt want to give me even 1% because you dont want to lose money?? Hrmm maybe the roncesvalles business owners don't like losing money either...

Public transit could potentially bring in more customers for businesses, so it makes sense to make it as user-friendly as possible. It's really the disadvantaged who are quickly forgotten in these debates. It could really help seniors and the disabled, to be able to get on the new low-floor streetcars easier from the bumpout. Roncesvalles was never on my list of list of quick routes for driving anyway. In fact, its relaxed pace makes its commercial and social atmosphere quite attractive.

It's probably not on your list because you don't need to go anywhere it takes you. It is a major road in parkdale/roncesvalles and carries the heaviest used streetcar in the TTC network leading to a very busy subway station. It's not kensington market, its a major road.

 

[catcher_of_cats]

Umm its a 2 Km stretch. How do you figure it doesnt take 10-12 minutes in a street car? Maybe at 1:00am its a shorter time but I'm talking about peak times. You can walk 2km in 15 mins? considering that is about double the human walking speed. Damn your a fast walker!

The stretch of Roncesvalles from Queen to Howard Park is slightly less then 1.5km. There is never, I repeat never, a parking problem between Howard Park and Dundas. According to walking studies, a young adult averages around 5.32 to 5.43 km/h. This means that at this average (not quick or fast) speed, in 15 minutes I will be around 100m short walking from Howard Park to Queen.

When the 504 streetcar runs without disruption, depending on passenger requesting stops, etc. outside of prime rush hour it takes between 4-7 minutes. Obviously around 8am or 5pm the roads are much slower and even driving without transit on the road can take 10 minutes.

Also, anyone who actually lives near Roncesvalles would know that rush hour traffic does not last very long, so the excuse that the bump outs will cause further delay most of the time is complete BS.

 

[nfitz]

If 10% loss is minor how about you give me 10% of your yearly salary? Oh wait you wouldnt want to give me even 1% because you dont want to lose money?? Hrmm maybe the roncesvalles business owners don't like losing money either...

My point was simply that with the new streetcars being longer than even the ALRVs, that there would likely have been a loss of a parking spot at each stop anyway. I have no idea how you think this relates to my salary.

However, given that even the BIA doesn't seem too concerned by the loss of spots, I'm surprised that there are NIMBYs about on this issue.

 

[W. K. Lis]

My point was simply that with the new streetcars being longer than even the ALRVs, that there would likely have been a loss of a parking spot at each stop anyway. I have no idea how you think this relates to my salary.

However, given that even the BIA doesn't seem too concerned by the loss of spots, I'm surprised that there are NIMBYs about on this issue.

I have seen a couple of the new bumpouts. They don't look 30m in length. I think the platforms are designed to fit at the doors of the new low-floor streetcars with the ends overhanging. The double doors will be the ones large enough to handle handicapped scooters.

If the bumpouts were actually 30m in length, even a couple more parking spaces could have been displaced. As is, if the average ridership in an automobile is 1.3 to 1.6, that number will be easily accommodated on a couple of seats on the new streetcars.

 

[nfitz]

I have seen a couple of the new bumpouts. They don't look 30m in length. I think the platforms are designed to fit at the doors of the new low-floor streetcars with the ends overhanging.

Presumably though the no-parking zone extends past the doors that are overhanging. I'd think that the length of the bump-out itself would already have been a no-parking zone, so the additional no-parking area would be adjacent.

 

[StIdes]

The stretch of Roncesvalles from Queen to Howard Park is slightly less then 1.5km. There is never, I repeat never, a parking problem between Howard Park and Dundas. According to walking studies, a young adult averages around 5.32 to 5.43 km/h. This means that at this average (not quick or fast) speed, in 15 minutes I will be around 100m short walking from Howard Park to Queen.

Most people take the street car to dundas west station not howard park. It's 2km from queen to bloor. I've walked it many times it takes about 25 mins and I'm a fairly fast walker.

When the 504 streetcar runs without disruption, depending on passenger requesting stops, etc. outside of prime rush hour it takes between 4-7 minutes. Obviously around 8am or 5pm the roads are much slower and even driving without transit on the road can take 10 minutes.

Also, anyone who actually lives near Roncesvalles would know that rush hour traffic does not last very long, so the excuse that the bump outs will cause further delay most of the time is complete BS.

That's my whole point. Roncesvalles does get very busy during rush hour! It is a major street! Can you imagine the traffic on this street now with the bump outs and no cars being able to pass streetcars? You can say its not a big deal or whatever but you cant deny that these bumpouts WILL cause more traffic congestion. This is unacceptable whether if its 1 min added to your travel time or 1 hour. New road designs should NEVER make the traffic situation worse! It's asinine!

 

[SlickFranky]

New road designs should NEVER make the traffic situation worse! It's asinine!

Umm...roads are for moving people, not just cars. They're just shifting the balance a bit, making car travel 5% worse to make traniit 5% better. What's the big deal? I you're driving, try Parkside, or Lansdowne. Or just take the streetcar. It's a very relaxing way to travel, and you seem like you could use some relaxation.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Can you imagine the traffic on this street now with the bump outs and no cars being able to pass streetcars? You can say its not a big deal or whatever but you cant deny that these bumpouts WILL cause more traffic congestion. This is unacceptable whether if its 1 min added to your travel time or 1 hour. New road designs should NEVER make the traffic situation worse! It's asinine!

Hmmm. 1.3 to 1.6 per automobile vs. the 70 seated passengers on the new streetcars (not including the standees). And you're worried about the 70 people being in the way of the 1.3. We should all bow before you.

 

[nfitz]

New road designs should NEVER make the traffic situation worse! It's asinine!

Surely designing all the roads primarily for cars, rather than transit is asinine. There's only a handful of roads designed for transit ... drive on another road instead.

And I say this as someone who lives next to a streetcar line, and drives a car.

 

[StIdes]

Umm...roads are for moving people, not just cars. They're just shifting the balance a bit, making car travel 5% worse to make traniit 5% better. What's the big deal? I you're driving, try Parkside, or Lansdowne. Or just take the streetcar. It's a very relaxing way to travel, and you seem like you could use some relaxation.

Hey genius you do realize making the street more congested is going to have a negative effect on transit not a 5% positive increase. Give your head a shake.

Hmmm. 1.3 to 1.6 per automobile vs. the 70 seated passengers on the new streetcars (not including the standees). And you're worried about the 70 people being in the way of the 1.3. We should all bow before you.

You're missing the point entirely. I'm not anti transit I ride the TTC more then I drive. Those 70 people on the streetcar are going to have a lot more cars slowing them down now and making their ride longer. I'm for better transit not against it. Build roads that move transit and cars along the quickest!

Surely designing all the roads primarily for cars, rather than transit is asinine. There's only a handful of roads designed for transit ... drive on another road instead.

And I say this as someone who lives next to a streetcar line, and drives a car.

Roncesvalles is not designed for transit. ROWs are designed for transit. Roncesvalles is a car and transit road. These bump outs make the trip worse for both forms of transportation.

-----------------------------------------

TRANSIT AND CARS ARE BOTH GOING TO BE SLOWED DOWN, NOT JUST CARS!

If you're going to support bump-outs to help the elderly or disabled fine, that is a valid arguement, but still not enough in my opinion to cause mass traffic congestion. But please, nobody sit there and tell me that bump outs are going to "make transit better" because slower rides are not better transit. IT'S WORSE TRANSIT! It's not rocket science.

 

[SlickFranky]

Hey genius you do realize making the street more congested is going to have a negative effect on transit not a 5% positive increase. Give your head a shake.

The bumpouts make transit use a little friendlier. And I don't see how they will slow streetcars down. By your logic it will be impossible for cars to pass them, so they should have miles of wide open road in front of them, inaccessible to all other vehicles. Shouldn't they actually be faster, by your logic?

 

[StIdes]

The bumpouts make transit use a little friendlier. And I don't see how they will slow streetcars down. By your logic it will be impossible for cars to pass them, so they should have miles of wide open road in front of them, inaccessible to all other vehicles. Shouldn't they actually be faster, by your logic?

:FACEPALM: They will be slowed down because the whole street is going to be more congested! More cars in front of street cars! More cars behind street cars! More cars turning LEFT in front of street cars! I'm not going to respond to anymore of your posts now because you're obviously older then your IQ with these dumb posts you keep making. (and I'm not saying you're old btw)

 

[StIdes]

So in conclusion.

Taken from Roncesvalles:
- money for extra concrete and labour ($$$)
-10% parking
-Car driving speed (congestion)
-Transit speed (congestion)

Added to Roncesvalles
+Bump outs (Transit riders don't have to raise their leg 6 inches now)

Wow what an awesome trade off! Kinda reminds me of some of the terrible trades brian burke has been making lately