[nfitz]

The City has never been able to work with such alacrity and professionalism.

Both the major Dundas and Gerrard rebuilds moved quite efficiently and on-schedule, among others. Surely it's a function of the contractor, more than the city. Who has the contract?

 

[wanderer66]

The City has the final responsibilty whenever it comes to any major road work in my opinion. They do tender the contract but they have the job of keeping the Contractor to the timeline slated for the job. On Roncie, Varcon went 4 months over while Comer only went, I believe, 2 months over (off the top of my head). The City is responsible to their constituents to "hold the feet (of the Contractors) to the fire" if the Contractors are slow, inept or just plain incompetent. Stop giving contracts to those who cannot do the job competently / properly. I should have stated the Dundas West potential fiasco that's going on right now around Ossington to Landsdowne. Whomever did the re-build on the bridge spanning the Rail lines did a reasonable job (time-wise). Stop using the tired line of "old infrastructure" all the time. If you tender a contract to a company who doesn't know how to do something, it's just as much the City's fault as the Contractor for failing... re: St. Clair.

p.s. the Watermains still aren't technically done as there are still open holes on the street/sidewalk. All that they have done is to finish it to the point where they could have 2-way traffic.

 

[drum118]

The City has the final responsibilty whenever it comes to any major road work in my opinion. They do tender the contract but they have the job of keeping the Contractor to the timeline slated for the job. On Roncie, Varcon went 4 months over while Comer only went, I believe, 2 months over (off the top of my head). The City is responsible to their constituents to "hold the feet (of the Contractors) to the fire" if the Contractors are slow, inept or just plain incompetent. Stop giving contracts to those who cannot do the job competently / properly. I should have stated the Dundas West potential fiasco that's going on right now around Ossington to Landsdowne. Whomever did the re-build on the bridge spanning the Rail lines did a reasonable job (time-wise). Stop using the tired line of "old infrastructure" all the time. If you tender a contract to a company who doesn't know how to do something, it's just as much the City's fault as the Contractor for failing... re: St. Clair.

There are many reason for the contractor to go over the time frame and it may not be their fault in the first place. The contractor can run into things not shown on the drawings that can have major impact on the work that requires new engineering drawings and that take time. It may require special material that will take time. The city under estimated the lengthen of time to do the work. Then there is the weather.

It is very clear you don't understand how construction works. Spend a summer or two working for a contractor and you will change your tune.

I work in construction in the management field and can say if the contractor is a good one or bad one. Based on what I have seen and heard, the contractor is doing the work as tender with a number of delays caused by the Ward Councilor and the City. The city has issued some wrong info on the drawings.

The City itself has been at fault for most problems as stated by you.

There was a crew who did the track work on Dundas a few years ago, who were late since it was their first attempt doing it and therefore not a good contractor to a point. There is a learning curve and it can only be learn by doing something new to not make the same mistake again on another project. The other contractor was on time, ahead of schedule and was the same one that did St Clair.

The contractor told me in March he was going to be finish by the end of Oct for St Clair. He was one week late considering all the rain we had, waterline was a month late, City had him jumping all around with wrong benchmarks and other things. If the contractor had done it the way he wanted, he would had been finish in Sept. Hydro was still doing their thing also.

There are people within the City that need to find a new job.

It also time to go back where all levels and department work as one team to try to do all the work at one time than, not a year or few between water, hydro, TTC, rebuilding the road/sidewalk. This causes disruption on the community and having patch work roads or sidewalks at the end of the day.

Rome was not built overnight and don't expect this road to be done in a few month.

 

[nfitz]

Oh, was Dundas late? How late was it?

I followed Queen East and Upper Gerrard more closely, and they seemed to go like clockwork.

Who is the contractor on the Roncesville tracks? Is it TTC administering or the City?

 

[DSCToronto]

The TTC did new streetcar tracks on Church last year and went so fast they did all of it by year-end - though original plan was to do some this spring. Now the water folk are finishing off installing a new watermain, sidewalks are being rebuilt and soon the road will be resurfaced. OK, there was little Hydro work and it's a fairly short stretch but they CAN do projects on schedule. This year they are just finishing new watermain on Parliament and will then start TTC tracks, I think it is all due for completion by September and it would seem to be on schedule. As Drum says, there are good contractors, there is the weather and ...

 

[wanderer66]

Drum, I agree with you that it isn't always the fault of the contractor. Old or inaccurate drawings, weather and/or the need for special materials may slow or occasionally halt a project... sh#t happens. I do know what it takes to run a Contracting business as I worked for one the better part of a summer years ago but that was a friend's business and if he was late, or heaven forbid he did the job wrong, he paid for it with sometimes dramatic consequences... unlike how the City works. But with Roncey, imagine how far behind Comer and Varcon would be if we actually had a real winter.

I agree with you that the City is sometimes the thorn in the Contractors side with delays or changes to plans set months in advance... re: St.Clair. I cringe though when I hear of the City awarding a contract to a company that is inexperienced or inept in doing something since usually the only people to suffer are those who live and work in that area.

I agree with you that there are people who work for the City that need to go out and find a new job. Too many times you hear of something like what's taking place on Bloor Street happen. One group bitterly blaming the other while that group points the finger elsewhere... it never ends. When good old Kyle Rae is actually heard saying that the City can't run a project like this, it's time to re-think things... especially when Kyle is one of the "leaders" of this City. As someone said to me years ago... "the Government hires those who can't get a job anywhere else." Possibly a rather inflammatory statement but the "public sector" is a lot more forgiving than the "private sector" in terms of accountability.

I actually suggested to Councillor Perks that all future Contracts have a 10 - 15 % over estimation on the length of time needed to complete a project as people are usually over joyed when something is done on time or even early. I do know that Rome wasn't built overnight and I never thought or said that work done around the City (including Roncesvalles) would take just a few months. A 100 year old pipe is just that... a (probably) almost rotten piece of infrastructure that needs professional hands to fix and yes it does take time, but if you've done it once or a hundred times before, stop using that argument over and over again to shift blame. Act like someone who knows what they are doing.

 

[W. K. Lis]

More information available at http://roncesvallesrenewed.org/Home/tabid/36/EntryId/81/Phase-2-Plan-Update.aspx and you can download a PDF at this link.

 

[bar1967]

Anyone know if they are getting rid of the ugly Hydro poles and wires?

 

[W. K. Lis]

Anyone know if they are getting rid of the ugly Hydro poles and wires?

They put the electrical and communication cables underground along St. Clair West. And people got upset about all the digging and delays.

So to avoid the backlash and delays, they decided to keep the overhead wires.

 

[junctionist]

They put the electrical and communication cables underground along St. Clair West. And people got upset about all the digging and delays.

So to avoid the backlash and delays, they decided to keep the overhead wires.

That's just perverse. It's short term pain for enhancement that can be enjoyed for generations. Wise planners would not listen to such short sighted complaints. Many people have complained about the hydro wires for generations already. But it's true that these projects are so long. More 24 hour work should be done so it's less disruptive. My dental office on Roncesvalles must have called me every week to remind me it's time for a cleaning. It gave me the impression that if they were not that unusually aggressive, they'd go out of business.

 

[bar1967]

That's just perverse. It's short term pain for enhancement that can be enjoyed for generations. Wise planners would not listen to such short sighted complaints. Many people have complained about the hydro wires for generations already. But it's true that these projects are so long. More 24 hour work should be done so it's less disruptive. My dental office on Roncesvalles must have called me every week to remind me it's time for a cleaning. It gave me the impression that if they were not that unusually aggressive, they'd go out of business.

I agree. They missed the opportunity and now won't have the chance to put them underground for decades. Such a shame. It sure made a huge difference on St. Clair... it looks so much nicer along there now without all the wire clutter..

 

[W. K. Lis]

Split the Queen 501, argue west-enders
Poor service west of Humber Loop leaves some riders waiting 45 minutes even in rush hour

In case you missed the article in the Star:

Split the Queen 501, argue west-enders

May 06, 2010

Tess Kalinowski

After more than a year of tinkering with the management of Toronto’s iconic Queen streetcar line, the TTC is still stranding some west-end riders up to three-quarters of an hour even during rush periods, according to residents along the Queensway and Lake Shore Blvd.

They want the TTC to restore a separate 507 Long Branch route that would run from the west, then up Roncesvalles to Dundas West.

That route was cut in 1995, when the reduction was justified by lower employment and ridership along the route. But that stretch has since experienced a residential revival.

Nevertheless, in a report going to the transit commissioners Thursday, TTC staff recommend against splitting the Queen line at Humber, in favour of leaving the 501 as North America’s longest route.

A Long Branch line would provide better service to about 8,000 riders daily, concedes the TTC report. But it would cost about $825,000 a year and possibly up to 300 riders daily from among the 2,500 who would have to make an extra transfer at the Humber Loop.

The wait to go west is normally about five or 10 minutes, says rider Mike Olivier, who plans to address Thursday’s TTC meeting. But it can take up to 45 minutes to get home from the Humber Loop, because only about half of the Queen cars continue on, and about one in five of those are short-turned before they reach the end.

“They’re saying it’s a good idea but we don’t meet the financial requirements for the service, which is silly because they didn’t take into account more reliable service, how many riders that would add, and that’s a big factor,” he said.

The report is an example of why the TTC has such a poor customer-service reputation, said transit blogger Steve Munro. Because the TTC could run standard cars on the new route rather than longer articulated ones, he says, it would free up equipment that could ease crowding on King. It would also enhance service on Roncesvalles when the streetcar returns there.

Munro says the TTC report fails to take into account that much of the ridership west of Humber is local, with people travelling shorter hops. Supervisors managing the route from Queen and Roncesvalles don’t see those riders and assume it’s okay to short-turn cars, he said.

“The TTC doesn’t want to admit that the unified (Queen) line was a disaster from the day they implemented it.”

An experiment last fall to split the Queen streetcar at Shaw was deemed a failure. But most riders and transit experts agree that long delays and bunching tend to be worst at the far ends of longer routes.

Running the 507 up Roncesvalles is only a proposal at the moment. Would be nice to see a 507 Roncesvalles instead of a 507 Long Branch go up Roncesvalles to the Dundas West Station after the tracks are relaid, but it may confuse some people since Roncesvalles is also the carbarns. Then again, the name Roncesvalles would only appear on transfers . The CLRV's are using linens with the route number, without the route name. But if the new streetcars will have LED signage, route names could reappear on the outside.

 

[GTS]

Their is a group on Facebook called 'Reinstate the 507 Streetcar', join it if you support the map in WK Lis' post. You can also make comments about this route and their is a bit of information as to why they want to reinstate this route as well.

 

[Fresh Start]

None of this would even matter if they built the Downtown Relief subway via Queen and Wellington Streets. Folk at Queen and Roncesvalles would be at Bay Street in under 10 minutes. It's counterintuitive that someone from Long Branch would want to go to Dundas West when the 110 and 123 can carry them to the subway in far less time than via the streetcar.

 

[reaperexpress]

None of this would even matter if they built the Downtown Relief subway via Queen and Wellington Streets. Folk at Queen and Roncesvalles would be at Bay Street in under 10 minutes. It's counterintuitive that someone from Long Branch would want to go to Dundas West when the 110 and 123 can carry them to the subway in far less time than via the streetcar.

Yeah. Why should we spend a negligible amount of money to immediately improve a streetcar route when there might be a subway line within the next 50 years?

And besides the point of the 507 is to serve local traffic on Lakeshore, with Roncesvalles and the subway connection as a side benefit. Even if the DRL was built, we would probably want something like this to provide reliable service between Roncesvalles and Long Branch.