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June 15-09 Update

I love the materials used on this building

Click on the thumbnail to enlarge, then click again on the image for full size.

 
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What a great stretch of street this is. A sports stadium, the Royal Conservatory of Music, Philosopher's Walk and then the ROM. No one tries to fit in, they all keep their individuality but everything's in harmony. Just what a city should be.
 
Prediction: before 10 years pass, Roy Thomson Hall will be improved drastically in response to all the acoustic comparisons that are inevitable. Koerner is a beautiful recital-sized hall which is destined to have excellent acoustics given the know how of the people who designed it. Toronto needs a full sized concert hall with bitchingly good acoustics and Roy Thomson is not that hall, and its operators know that, as do TSO audiences in a fair percentage of the seating areas. Watch -- a full Roy Thomson fix will happen.
 
TonyV:

I don't see how they can improve the acoustics at RTH any further considering most of the recommendations (what, 9 out of 10) by the late Russell Johnson at Artec has already been implemented. New hall, perhaps?

AoD
 
TonyV said:
Prediction: before 10 years pass, Roy Thomson Hall will be improved drastically in response to all the acoustic comparisons that are inevitable. Koerner is a beautiful recital-sized hall which is destined to have excellent acoustics given the know how of the people who designed it. Toronto needs a full sized concert hall with bitchingly good acoustics and Roy Thomson is not that hall, and its operators know that, as do TSO audiences in a fair percentage of the seating areas. Watch -- a full Roy Thomson fix will happen.
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I agree; Roy Thomson Hall needs to be fixed or re-built and everyone knows it. The Four Seasons Centre, The Weston Recital Hall and (soon) The Telus Centre, have raised the bar. "Making due" isn't good enough. I think (and hope) that your "before 10 years pass" prediction is true.
 
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Anyone going to the gala? Madama Butterfly opens at the FSCPA the next night, so I probably shan't.

With RTH, the sound is quite variable depending on where you are. At one concert I attended, quiet passages were difficult to hear from my orchestra level seat - but sounded rich and full two floors above in the balcony where my friends sat. Generally, I think that if you avoid being under the overhang of the mezzanine or the balcony it can be very good. For a couple of seasons I was at the front of the mezzanine and it was excellent. The balcony itself can be very good too, and for the past few seasons I've been happy enough at orchestra level around rows J to N.

But it isn't just a matter of where you sit, it's also a matter of where the performers are - at The Magic Flute opera in concert in January, Aline Kutan delivered the Queen of the Night's famous aria from the gallery above the choir stall and she was clearer than the performers on stage. This ain't no Four Seasons Centre, alas.

I think the enhancements warmed up the sound, but RTH won't be considered one of the world's great halls unless they have another kick at the can. Even then it may not work and I question whether there's the will - or the money - to try it so soon after the last "improvements".
 
Urban Shocker said:
With RTH, the sound is quite variable depending on where you are. At one concert I attended, quiet passages were difficult to hear from my orchestra level seat - but sounded rich and full two floors above in the balcony where my friends sat. Generally, I think that if you avoid being under the overhang of the mezzanine or the balcony it can be very good. For a couple of seasons I was at the front of the mezzanine and it was excellent. The balcony itself can be very good too, and for the past few seasons I've been happy enough at orchestra level around rows J to N.
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I really enjoy sitting in the choir loft on the left side of the stage. The sound is unbalanced, but you get to sit directly behind the pianist and you can see what their hands are doing. (I play the piano myself, and am always interested in watching the mechanics behind each person's sound). It's also kind of neat to be so close to the musicians -- you can even read the sheet over their shoulder and follow along as they're playing! For me, this is the most entertaining place in the house.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
TonyV:

I don't see how they can improve the acoustics at RTH any further considering most of the recommendations (what, 9 out of 10) by the late Russell Johnson at Artec has already been implemented. New hall, perhaps?

AoD
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Hi AoD,

The acoustic brains behind the re-do of RTH were those of Artec (Russel Johnson and team). Johnson was a rabid shoebox-hall fan and he got involved in the round RTH redo with some fear as I understand things. It was wondered out loud if Johnson was "putting a square peg into a round hole" so to speak.

Years later I wonder if the outcome would have been better if someone with a different brain had handled the effort. Nagata acoustics did Walt Disney Hall (L.A.) to wide acclaim. Nagata are at work on several European halls now with similar interior proportioning to Disney. They are fashioned after Scharoun's Berlin masterpiece. So there we have it -- in several cities now, designers are embracing the once-controversial Berlin/Scharoun model. It took a while to get the original to sound good, and the recent ones (i.e. Copenhagen) reputedly sound excellent. Edit: there is one thing that Artec and Nagata would agree on -- it is impossible to expect halls with RTH's cubic volume after the reno be sound great. In other words, the reno left RTH just too darned big.

RTH was conceived to be different from a shoebox and a shoebox it will never be. I wish they had patterned it closely to Berlin's Philharmonie.

So here's my confession - I am bored to tears with shoebox halls and I don't blame Arthur Erickson for trying to come up with something different. He just didn't have Scharoun's genius in these matters. I am in love with the Berlin Philharmonie hall.

As Urban Shocker wrote, the RTH people should take a second kick at the can. But not a third, such as they're about to do in New York. Maybe RTH should get Nagata on the case.

PS--In general I love the RTH building although the way it meets the street is a tad bad ... and there's a parking lot behind it, what's that about? The lobbies are extraordinary, something really sexy in Toronto.

PPS-The Boston Symphony played the Berlin hall last year. Boston Symphony players live in a famous shoebox and they marvelled at the Philharmonie's non-shoebox sound.
 
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TonyV:

Point taken re: Artec and non-shoebox halls - though 2(3?) examples of such with excellent acoustics doesn't exactly inspire much confidence - beyond the scale of the intervention required re: RTH and what it will do to the interior design of the hall.

re: reno - I thought the maple "boxes" around the hall reduced the volume of the hall by about 10%?

In my fantasy scenarios, they would build a new hall and restore RTH to the original Erickson design - there is something amiss after the refit.

AoD
 
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AlvinofDiaspar said:
In my fantasy scenarios, they would build a new hall and restore RTH to the original Erickson design - there is something amiss after the refit.

AoD
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Similar to a fantasy I have except what purpose would a restored RTH serve? It was useless unless for amplified music, not classical. And while we are in our fantasy world, the ideal location for a new hall is directly west of the Royal Conservatory where the dumb sports facility / blow-up thingy was built. A larger version of Koerner, 2000 seats maybe? Like my folks told me -- don't forget how to dream. May I add that while yes I may be bored in general with all the shoeboxes, the interior of Koerner is so beautifully put together --- with a built in element of art, especially the ceiling -- that I've made it an exception.

On to the topic --- the Royal Conservatory update is just gorgeous work all around -- exteriors, interiors (thanks adma for posting the blogto link). These KPBM people know how to deliver a building that is a feast, and at the same time ever so slightly modest; the overall effect of the building is very warming (in all seasons, I've noticed!).

Still, my prediction stands, I am out on a limb -- they'll try to make RTH much better and they'll probably succeed.
 
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