[Surrealplaces]

I'm sure it was a mistake, but apparently 2 people in Poland were killed.

Some reports are now saying that this was a fragment of a missile that the Ukrainians shot down...

One thing for sure, is we'll have to wait and see what actually happened. At least check, I don't believe it was actually confirmed that it was Russian missiles, only that there were explosions caused by a projectile and that it was being investigated. It's possible it could be fragments. Even if it's fragments from a missile that Ukraine shot down, it still looks bad on Russia.

 

[UrbanWarrior]

Article 4 will be activated, not Article 5.

However, this is just another aspect of placating Russia and handling their tantrums with kid gloves. There needs to be a clear and united response to ensure they quit fucking around. If they can’t accurately control their missiles, we either need to implement a missile defense wall across the Ukraine/Russia and NATO/Russia-Belarus border, or we need to neutralize their ability to fire them. They’re as incompetent as it comes, and they need to be treated as the ineffectual pukes that they are.

 

[Mountain Man]

So we should go to war with Russia and their extremely unstable leader? Force seems to be the only thing Putin understands...

We aren't placating Putin, we are trying to avoid WW3.

 

[darwink]

Hence nato statements of solidarity, and that even focused attacks/incursions/invasions would be soundly turned back.

 

[Surrealplaces]

Not related to the Ukraine conflict directly, but wow what a gong show in Russia lately. If Putin goes down in the near future, historians will point to the Ukraine invasion as the downfall of Putin. So ironic considering what happened with Hitler and Napolean. People never learn.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

Not related to the Ukraine conflict directly, but wow what a gong show in Russia lately. If Putin goes down in the near future, historians will point to the Ukraine invasion as the downfall of Putin. So ironic considering what happened with Hitler and Napolean. People never learn.

These men have egos we cannot comprehend. Their egos will always end them.

 

[Surrealplaces]

These men have egos we cannot comprehend. Their egos will always end them.

Yep. Hitler didn't learn from Napolean, and Putin didn't learn anything from Hitler. History repeats itself.

 

[DougB]

Not related to the Ukraine conflict directly, but wow what a gong show in Russia lately. If Putin goes down in the near future, historians will point to the Ukraine invasion as the downfall of Putin. So ironic considering what happened with Hitler and Napolean. People never learn.

The Ukraine invasion was likely more of a symptom than a cause. The Russian economy had stagnated for a long time. Putin was going to face a challenge so he used Ukraine as both a distraction and as a symbol of his strength. It was a reasonable calculation given relatively little blowback from the Crimea invasion in 2014. I would have given greater than even odds to the Ukrainian government leaving town when the tanks rolled and the west, particularly Germany, not pursuing meaningful sanctions.

 

[Beltline_B]

The Ukraine invasion was likely more of a symptom than a cause. The Russian economy had stagnated for a long time. Putin was going to face a challenge so he used Ukraine as both a distraction and as a symbol of his strength. It was a reasonable calculation given relatively little blowback from the Crimea invasion in 2014. I would have given greater than even odds to the Ukrainian government leaving town when the tanks rolled and the west, particularly Germany, not pursuing meaningful sanctions.

It was a reasonable calculation to assume they could take Ukraine, but also the same could be said for Napoleon or Hitler, taking Russia as well. And thus why history repeats itself. Every time a leader makes a choice like Putin did, they always have a reasonable calculation for success at the outset. Hitler and Napoleon aren’t the only ones, it goes all through history over and over.
It’s still a massive blunder in the end, and despite reasonable calculations up front, ego always plays a part in it.

 

[Beltline_B]

I find the whole turn of events, fascinating. It’s always nice to sit back with some popcorn and watch dictators fuck up. Lol

 

[DougB]

It was a reasonable calculation to assume they could take Ukraine, but also the same could be said for Napoleon or Hitler, taking Russia as well. And thus why history repeats itself. Every time a leader makes a choice like Putin did, they always have a reasonable calculation for success at the outset. Hitler and Napoleon aren’t the only ones, it goes all through history over and over.
It’s still a massive blunder in the end, and despite reasonable calculations up front, ego always plays a part in it.

Definitely. Perhaps the largest failing of overly centralized decision making is that egos get in the way.

 

[maestro]

It was a miscalculation attacking Ukraine similar to Saddam Hussein attacking Kuwait. Hussein was under the impression his ally, the United States, would take his side. The damage Trump did to NATO ended with the inauguration of Biden.

Hitler was a terrible tactician. The outcome was certain the day he invaded Poland at least 5 years before his advisors stated that they would have the necessary hardware to pull it off. Then, he decided to fight the battle on two fronts.

We need to learn from Afghanistan. The only people that can revolt against the Russian regime are the Russian themselves. It's wishful thinking that the dictatorship will end with Putin on longer on the throne.