[picard102]

Why do cops always shoot to kill instead of shooting to disable?


If the guy has a knife and starts walking towards you, shoot him in the leg...

Cop's are trained to shoot to kill. When you decide you're going to use your gun, it's to kill. Not disable.

Also, shooting to disable is only something that happens in movies. It's incredibly hard to shoot someone moving, in an extremity.

 

[W. K. Lis]

While there are more than one camera on-board the streetcar, I am guessing the only audio would be at the operator's microphone or handset only. Would they have been recording sound at the time? Or will there just be video?

 

[urbandreamer]

Clearly the kid in question was on drugs, and quite possibly involved with the drug biz based on his tweets & handle:
https://twitter.com/sammypusha
16 July he tweets

We smokin weed poppin pills sniffin lines styll drinkin fckn bitchez gettin money till tha motha fckn end baaabyy

22 July

& I've been thinking how can iget away , it got me thinking about a PERFECT day.

26 July

Snow like its christmas

 

[freshcutgrass]

We know 9 shots were fired, but considering the inaccuracy of handguns, it's safe to assume he was not actually hit 9 times.

Regardless of how many times he was hit, none of them were instantly fatal, as it is 37 seconds after the ninth shot is fired, and they are still ordering him to drop the knife. In fact, they can be heard ordering him to drop the knife as they are actually tazering him.

Obviously he was down, but not out, but it allowed them to get closer to tazer him. Whether the tazering allowed them to actually disarm him, or he had succumbed to his wounds is unknown.

Why do cops always shoot to kill instead of shooting to disable? If the guy has a knife and starts walking towards you, shoot him in the leg...

First of all, any gunshot wound can be fatal or not fatal...you can't tell ahead of time. LOL

Secondly, they don't shoot to kill, they shoot to make sure you are no longer a threat. How many shots it takes is irrelevant. If they wanted to kill him, they would have continued shooting him, rather than tazer him. They don't have time to make split second medical evaluations. He's either dead/unconscious...or he's not. I doubt they were tazering a corpse and yelling at him to drop his weapon. People keep pretending that the welfare of the bad guy is the priority....when it isn't.

It was a sad day, but at least the bad guy lost and no one else was hurt.

 

[sixrings]

Regardless of how many times he was hit, none of them were instantly fatal, as it is 37 seconds after the ninth shot is fired, and they are still ordering him to drop the knife. In fact, they can be heard ordering him to drop the knife as they are actually tazering him.

Obviously he was down, but not out, but it allowed them to get closer to tazer him. Whether the tazering allowed them to actually disarm him, or he had succumbed to his wounds is unknown.




First of all, any gunshot wound can be fatal or not fatal...you can't tell ahead of time. LOL

Secondly, they don't shoot to kill, they shoot to make sure you are no longer a threat. How many shots it takes is irrelevant. If they wanted to kill him, they would have continued shooting him, rather than tazer him. They don't have time to make split second medical evaluations. He's either dead/unconscious...or he's not. I doubt they were tazering a corpse and yelling at him to drop his weapon. People keep pretending that the welfare of the bad guy is the priority....when it isn't.

It was a sad day, but at least the bad guy lost and no one else was hurt.

Remind me not to get high around you and call you a pussy!

 

[freshcutgrass]

From the Star....

The streetcar was empty save for a young man in the front seat on the right of the vehicle. The operator of the streetcar was “standing hunched over the controls,” according to Grupp, who was watching about three metres away from the front doors of the car.

About 30 seconds later, “the operator jumped off and the fellow in the front right seat jumped up. The fellow was standing up — he was in plain view of the front right window. We saw him and we saw he was holding up a knife at that point.

“That’s when the police showed up,” said Grupp, who then took out his iPhone and started recording. “I started filming then, at 12:03.”

Ah that's interesting. Sounds like there may have been a hostage situation with the streetcar operator, who managed to escape.

 

[gabe]

Regardless of how many times he was hit, none of them were instantly fatal, as it is 37 seconds after the ninth shot is fired, and they are still ordering him to drop the knife. In fact, they can be heard ordering him to drop the knife as they are actually tazering him.

Obviously he was down, but not out, but it allowed them to get closer to tazer him. Whether the tazering allowed them to actually disarm him, or he had succumbed to his wounds is unknown.




First of all, any gunshot wound can be fatal or not fatal...you can't tell ahead of time. LOL

Secondly, they don't shoot to kill, they shoot to make sure you are no longer a threat. How many shots it takes is irrelevant. If they wanted to kill him, they would have continued shooting him, rather than tazer him. They don't have time to make split second medical evaluations. He's either dead/unconscious...or he's not. I doubt they were tazering a corpse and yelling at him to drop his weapon. People keep pretending that the welfare of the bad guy is the priority....when it isn't.

The police can only use deadly force when their lives and other people's lives are at risk. Who was this teen a threat to on an a empty street car surrounded by 23 officers? What was the hurry? They had enough police there to wait him out and he was alone.

Chief Blair was surprisingly nervous when he commented to media today. It's not looking good

 

[Peepers]

Regardless of how many times he was hit, none of them were instantly fatal, as it is 37 seconds after the ninth shot is fired, and they are still ordering him to drop the knife. In fact, they can be heard ordering him to drop the knife as they are actually tazering him.

Obviously he was down, but not out, but it allowed them to get closer to tazer him. Whether the tazering allowed them to actually disarm him, or he had succumbed to his wounds is unknown.

Actually new video released from a store video camera disproves your statement that "he was down but not out".

From this new video we can see the murder victim fall backwards onto the floor of the street car as a result of one or more of the first three shots striking him. As he lay on the floor we see a little movement in his legs - probably an involuntary muscle reflex. Other than this movement in the legs it is 100% obvious that Sammy is mortally wounded at this point. Why then did the killer cop continue to fire 6 more rounds into him as he lay on the ground?

Why did the second officer feel the need to taser him? It should now be obvious that the second officers calls to "drop the knife" were for effect only because he realized that his actions were probably being recorded.

This new video provides crucial detail and will no doubt add to the revulsion that most of us feel towards these police thugs.

http://globalnews.ca/video/748601/security-camera-footage-of-police-shooting-on-ttc-streetcar

 

[typezed]

It was a sad day, but at least the bad guy lost and no one else was hurt.

I'm sure the kid was no angel, and of course there should be serious consequences for pulling weapons, threatening violence and escalating situations with authorities. But those consequences shouldn't include death.

In this case the bad guy will be drawing an excellent salary for sitting at home and taking meetings with lawyers and union representatives for the next three and a half years.

 

[Roy G Biv]

Wow, that video shows he was no threat to the shooter. I am buying the whole "line-drawn-in-sand" by macho cop theory. He has to be looking at jail time....




Sammy will be glorified as some bright kid with a future dashed, when he was likely a worthless gang-banger, but that's irrelevant.

 

[picard102]

It should now be obvious that the second officers calls to "drop the knife" were for effect only because he realized that his actions were probably being recorded.

That's a pretty big assumption to be jumping to what is "obvious".

 

[ketan]

Sammy will be glorified as some bright kid with a future dashed, when he was likely a worthless gang-banger, but that's irrelevant.

I just registered an account to tell you how offensive and inhumane that comment was to me.

 

[freshcutgrass]

I'm sure the kid was no angel, and of course there should be serious consequences for pulling weapons, threatening violence and escalating situations with authorities. But those consequences shouldn't include death.

But that is a distinct risk in such volatile situations. I find avoiding being killed by police a rather easy task.

In this case the bad guy will be drawing an excellent salary for sitting at home and taking meetings with lawyers and union representatives for the next three and a half years.

No...the bad guy is going into the ground. Whether or not cops used the best judgement or followed proper protocols or not doesn't make them the bad guy.

The truth is, there are some people the world is better off without. One less knife-weilding nutjob with a death wish riding a streetcar I take regularly.

 

[Peepers]

That's a pretty big assumption to be jumping to what is "obvious".

No its not a big assumption at all. The video does not lie. What we see is the victim lying mortally wounded when the second officer enters the streetcar. The victim is lying motionless in the supine position on the floor. Why would you shout at him to "drop the knife" under these circumstances? I have no doubt that the officer shouting "drop the knife" did that for effect only. It's the same thing they do when they assault people. They instinctively shout "stop resisting" as they land punches on their victims.

 

[ketan]

But that is a distinct risk in such volatile situations. I find avoiding being killed by police a rather easy task.

I think what's offensive to many people at this point in time is how little effort was put into ending this situation peacefully and without death; how quickly the boy was shot and multiple times.