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Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
The City of Toronto would require 16 MILLION people to justify subways? The New York City proper only has 8 million! What are you smoking? I think you're extrapolating thrown together data to such an obscene extent as to not even be worthy of discussion. It simply doesn't. Make. Sense.
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There are no subways on Staten Island, which is about as densely populated as North York and Scarborough.
 
GraphicMatt said:
There are no subways on Staten Island, which is about as densely populated as North York and Scarborough.
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Oh well then that just solves everything doesn't it? Staten Island doesn't have subways, so we don't need them either. I wish I'd thought of that.

Guess what guys? It doesn't matter that the city is growing and getting more and more congested every year. Staten Island doesn't have a subway, so we can do without. Makes me feel a lot better.
 
The spreadsheet above makes no sense. There isn't a single ward that is at the point of requiring a subway? Not even Yonge from Eglinton to Union? Something is wrong with the logic there. Obviously a route network cannot simply be planned based on population density. Routes are about the density of trips, not the density of people staying in the same place.
 
Based on what I saw at the Agincourt GO area today, as well riding the 85's, you are lucky to see 2,000 riders at peak time going or coming from STC for each direction. I saw a number of zero riders on westbound 190's. Even a few 85's.

My 85 was once at peak load with most the trip in the 40's with a near zero 85 behind us.

I only saw 2 190's out of 12 going east that exceeded load standards with the rest at or below that level. The 85's were mostly below peak ridership and this is at many spots along the route.

This was after 5pm.
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
I think GraphicMatt and grey have some fact-checking to do.
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I was being a bit facetious - though I think the fact that Staten Island is still not connected with the New York subway system speaks volumes to the challenge that is operating HRT in low density neighbourhoods.
 
I am glad that I am finding different groups and other activists that are using some democratic tools of gatherings, and hopefully rallies, to save some of the much needed transit expansion plans Toronto has. I personally think, and truly believe, that it would be more costly for the city to not make this investment in transit here in Toronto (and the GTA for that matter). Public transit has so many benefits-environment, economy, tourism, business'.... the list goes on and it would be terribly short-sighted and foolish to stop these plans. No plan is perfect of course, but, right now Toronto has funding for three LRT lines of Transit City AND the SRT and I hope that more funding in pursued for more lines and expansion and improvement of our existing system.
 
From Bloomberg.com:

Oil will advance to $120 a barrel before the end of 2012 as consumption grows in emerging economies, according to a report today from JPMorgan Chase & Co.

Crude futures in New York will average $93 a barrel next year, up from a previous estimate of $89.75, and Brent crude traded in London will average $95 a barrel, compared with an earlier assessment of $91.75, the bank’s analysts forecast.
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Friday, a barrel of oil went for $89.00.

But don't worry, Rob Ford's anti-transit measures will mean that he will be able to drive unimpeded without single-occupant automobiles and streetcars getting in his way. The rest of us will now use buses (that use the more expensive diesel fuel) at higher fares to pay for the extra drivers needed.
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
Oh well then that just solves everything doesn't it? Staten Island doesn't have subways, so we don't need them either. I wish I'd thought of that.

Guess what guys? It doesn't matter that the city is growing and getting more and more congested every year. Staten Island doesn't have a subway, so we can do without. Makes me feel a lot better.
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Why do you care?

You live in Sauga.
 
GraphicMatt said:
There are no subways on Staten Island, which is about as densely populated as North York and Scarborough.
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No subways. But there is an electric train line that runs every 20 minutes during the midday and every 15 (or so) in rush hours. Even with the debate over subways vs. LRT, there are still other modes out there that we aren't even discussing.
 
reaperexpress said:
That's a rather odd statement, considering that the Staten Island Railway is fully grade separated and uses R44 Subway stock.
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Graphic Matt is correct. The Staten Island is not a subway. It's a commuter rail line, similar to the LIRR. It was built by the B & O Railroad, and run by the B & O until 1971, when MTA took it over.

The railway is a full mainline railroad that uses R44's modified to FRA mainline standards.

Not a subway at all.

Not in the least.

Just to repeat, not a subway.

All good?
 
EnviroTO said:
The spreadsheet above makes no sense. There isn't a single ward that is at the point of requiring a subway? Not even Yonge from Eglinton to Union? Something is wrong with the logic there. Obviously a route network cannot simply be planned based on population density. Routes are about the density of trips, not the density of people staying in the same place.
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From his logic, Hong Kong isn't dense enough for subways. Hong Kong would have to quadruple its population, in fact, to have the "required" density.
 
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