[Admiral Beez]

Would it make sense to separate cars from streetcars? This system of cars sharing the road with streetcars is obsolete, IMO.

How about King Street is made fully pedestrian and streetcar ROW, with no cars allowed. Then remove streetcars entirely from Queen Street. The King Streetcars could then, instead of moving to Queen could gain a ROW on Eastern, or along the Beach(s)?

 

[RedRocket191]

I'm not too sure about removing streetcars from Queen. Its one of Toronto's signatures - like the CN Tower (almost).

But I agree with you 100%. Streetcars in mixed traffic aren't working in many areas of the city.

 

[doady]

Just add third tracks to College, Dundas, Queen, and King, and then make them one-way for regular traffic. Streetcar traffic for all of them will be in their own ROW, but at the side of the street instead of in the middle, and still travel in both directions.

 

[poomar]

I'm not too sure about removing streetcars from Queen. Its one of Toronto's signatures - like the CN Tower (almost).

you mean an aesthetic object dated precisely from the 1980's that while having a significant 'oooh' factor doesn't really provide much in the way of utility?

 

[Panzerfaust]

you mean an aesthetic object dated precisely from the 1980's that while having a significant 'oooh' factor doesn't really provide much in the way of utility?

You know what? This fellow is right! I propose destroying every monument and statue in Toronto. You know, since they don't provide anything in the way of utility, they mustn't be important to the city.

[/sarcasm]

 

[JasonParis]

Just add third tracks to College, Dundas, Queen, and King, and then make them one-way for regular traffic. Streetcar traffic for all of them will be in their own ROW, but at the side of the street instead of in the middle, and still travel in both directions.

I actually think this idea has some merit. Toronto's vibrancy is strong enough to withstand some more one-way streets through the core. Streetcar reliability would be far greater. Alternately, a streetcar-subway and/or some form of Downtown-Relief-Line would also help east-west travel enormously through the core.

 

[Chuck]

Toronto's vibrancy is strong enough to withstand some more one-way streets through the core.

Vibrancy, pedestrian activity, and street life are absolutely not related to whether a street is one way or two way. The only examples that we have of major one way streets in Toronto are Adelaide and Richmond, both of which have always been back alleys to King and Queen streets. They have been devoid of commercial, residential, and pedestrian activity for well over a 100 years, and most of that time was spent as a normal 2 way street.

King, Queen, College, Dundas, and the rest of downtown streets that continue for at least 2 km should all be converted to one way streets. The impact to street life would be so miniscule that one would barely notice. However, it may be smart to maintain bi-directional streetcar service. Street life is tied to the type of buildings present on any given street, and the characteristics of the overall neighbourhood.

 

[Admiral Beez]

King, Queen, College, Dundas, and the rest of downtown streets that continue for at least 2 km should all be converted to one way streets. The impact to street life would be so miniscule that one would barely notice.

I don't know, downtown Calgary is pretty lame, and it's all one-way streets. What about on-street parking?

 

[nfitz]

College and Dundas don't seem that bad downtown - the biggest delay I see in rush hour, is how long it takes to load/unload at subway stations - and when the car is full. I'd think that POP fares and loading by all doors would go further to fixing the issues on those streets, than an expensive 1-way scheme. Beyond that, simply having the middle lane as transit only in rush hour (and enforcing it!) would help.

 

[Earlscourt_Lad]

The danger of going to tranist and pedestrian uses only is that you end up with something like Granville St. in Vancouver. For the 18 years I lived there, it was always a little shady and devoid of any sort of vibrancy. In total contrast to Robson St., where there was mixed trolleys and autos. Sure the #3 bus took forever to go from Granville to Denman, but the street was and is very much alive. Which I think is much more important than improving crosstown travel times by 10 minutes.

I'm not sure why, but anywhere that I've seen pedestrianized or pedestrian and transit only streets, they seem to have a soulessness about them.

I think the real solution to this would be a DRL of some sort that would provide a quicker east-west connection than is currently available. A Lakeshore LRT might be a starting point. Heavy rail (read: subway) would be preferable, but really isn't likely; add it to the cue of finishing the Stubway, the Eglinton line, etc., etc.

 

[MisterF]

Beez, streetcars in mixed traffic aren't obsolete at all. What's needed is POP all-door loading, along with a DRL or a King/Queen subway to free up the streetcars for short trips. Right now east-west rapid transit doesn't exist in the densest part of the city, a situation that's ridiculous any way you look at it. So everyone taking longer trips crowds onto the streetcars, making them unbearable.

Mixed traffic streetcars thrive in cities all over the world, Amsterdam and Prague for example. Both cities are smaller than Toronto but they have POP all-door loading on their streetcars and more complete subway systems in their cores, especially with the new blue line in Amsterdam.

 

[CDL.TO]

Mixed traffic streetcars thrive in cities all over the world, Amsterdam and Prague for example. Both cities are smaller than Toronto but they have POP all-door loading on their streetcars and more complete subway systems in their cores, especially with the new blue line in Amsterdam.

I can't speak for Prague, but in Amsterdam the trams almost never run in mixed traffic but instead run in private ROWs and pedestrianized streets. Their trams are not POP and do not have all-door loading, but instead have four doors with entry only through the front (pay the driver) or back (pay a ticket collector who sits there), and exit only through the two middle doors.

It works extremely well and explains why Amsterdam has managed without a proper subway line serving its core for so long (the subway line they have is only really useful for suburb to downtown trips).

 

[MisterF]

^I stand corrected. It's been a few years since I've been to Amsterdam so I guess I've forgotten. I do remember seeing them mostly on pedestrianized streets now that you mention it. Unlike Toronto, another downtown subway line is under construction there now.

Prague, OTOH, has lots of mixed traffic streetcars, probably more than Toronto. They aren't exactly fast, but they're faster than the Queen car. The POP system helps a lot. The city centre has 3 subway lines that cover pretty much the whole central area. And unlike what Steve Munro would have you believe, they haven't killed the streetcars.

 

[lister]

Would it make sense to separate cars from streetcars? This system of cars sharing the road with streetcars is obsolete, IMO.

How about King Street is made fully pedestrian and streetcar ROW, with no cars allowed. Then remove streetcars entirely from Queen Street. The King Streetcars could then, instead of moving to Queen could gain a ROW on Eastern, or along the Beach(s)?

I live at King & Spadina. It's bad enough that I can only enter and exit the parking garage one way (Spadina northbound) but to eliminate cars on King as well? No way! At best I'd agree to a one way on King as long as it's westbound.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

And unlike what Steve Munro would have you believe, they haven't killed the streetcars.

That's one of the best things about the DRL - it would be in addition to all existing downtown transit, not a replacement.