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How this will not lead to serious choke points for those exiting (claustrophobia anyone?), let alone do anything to cut the dwell time, remains a complete mystery to me. I'm sure there will never be an over-sized or over-burdened passenger stuck between the platform barrier and the train.

But then I may have completely misunderstood her explanation, like the ignorant fool I am.

presuming you're right, then a lost bag here and there or maybe a stuck passenger doesn't matter. We're reducing dwell times.....oh wait, if a person's stuck, then the train'll be delayed wouldn't it?? scratch that last part, it won't reduce dwell times, maybe increase them.
 
I'm open to be corrected on this one, but I believe her plan is for the barriers to be a foot or two back from the edge of the platform. The theory being that the platform doors would initially remain closed while the subway doors open, allowing passengers to squeeze their way along this narrow passage, either to the ends of the platform or to alternating exit platform doors, offset from the entering doors.

Once those leaving have cleared, then the entering platform doors would open and those waiting to board will not have to push their way past those streaming out (hence the nomenclature of "separated flow which can only happen with safety").

How this will not lead to serious choke points for those exiting (claustrophobia anyone?), let alone do anything to cut the dwell time, remains a complete mystery to me. I'm sure there will never be an over-sized or over-burdened passenger stuck between the platform barrier and the train.

But then I may have completely misunderstood her explanation, like the ignorant fool I am.


Asterix,

As far as the lobby list. Actually, I did try getting on that list, I some how messed it up. So the intent was there. and I haven't attempted it again.
Everything for me is a little unusual and dicey. Mostly because of some of the things I have uncovered while inventing.
But the main thing is, I don't actually have a product to sell unless it is OFFICIALLY, UNIQUE, NOVEL, & USEFUL, in otherwords, first in the world in the mind of the US and Canadian Patent Officials. This takes some time.

To date, not one person, anywhere within my research or people I have wrote to , or spoken with have said, Oh, this isn't new, they are already doing this in................ Or we are researching this right now. etc.

I have spoken to transit agency people around the world, several associations, train specialies, train suppliers & manufactures, queing specialists, and hundreds of hours researching on the net.

NOT ONE HAS TOLD ME THIS IS NOT UNIQUE. The fact is, look at how ridiculour Japan is doing it. They spend an extra 30 seconds in dwell time, just to squeeze in ten extra people, with those "white glove" stuffers.

Let's look at Yonge & Bloor specifically. No, it would not be 1 or 2 feet back from the edge. In this scenerio, it would be a straight wall, all along the inner portions of those floor diamonds. The diamond corner closet to the platform edge. Can everyone visualize this. Well Monday morning, look at the platform floor and say to yourself, HHmmm, let's pretend we have a straight wall, all along these diamond corners, and then we would visualize about 10 foot openings (walkthrough sections) and IN SECTION, THEN AN OUT SECTION, THEN AND IN SECTION ETC.

All the OUT sections doors open first, while all this in section people are behind the wall where all the IN SECTIONS ARE, about 15 seconds later, the IN SECTIONS DOORS OPEN, AND NOW WE WOULD LIKELY HAVE A 30- 40 SECOND DWELL AT YONGE AND BLOOR.

All Platform Doors close first, then the train doors second. All door charging is eliminated. All double cycling of doors eliminated. All Extended dwell time, since the Train (middle guy) isn't sitting there watching a boarding making a mad dash for the train door isn't, holding up the entire train, as he does not want to shut the doors on that passenger's face.

Further to this, would be a set of say red flashing lights on the inner platform doors, warning the people these doors are closing in say 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, just like the warning sign on cross walks.

The point of all of this, the platform has been chaotic, unpleasant, a push and shove, unsafe, uncomfortable, unrealistic, rude, need I go on. And no one, I don't think have figured a way using a "physical component" to "separate passenger flow" and actually bring order and efficiency to the platform.

I have a different solution for all the other platforms. But fixing Yonge & Bloor is an Ultimate & Key Needed Solution. I think, and honestly think I hold it. No one has shown me otherwise, for not want of trying. If it is out there, please tell me, so that I can stop my "OBSESSION".

"You fix a hub of a city, you fix an entire city", this is a quote, my quote to which was in my July 29th, 2008 letter originally addressed to the Toronto Transit Commission. It was TTC who did not know how to handle my question, do you buy ideas from the public? It was TTC who told me to patent it, and then bring it back to us.

I have just been patient, taken some interesting "abuse" from certain TTC staff, get told the case is closed, when in reality it was never opened in the first place. Innovation can be done, by just a letter or a phone call. That evidence is even clear by all these blogs. Are they called blogs? I don't even know.

So does anyone know if there is "separated passenger flow" for "single sided platforms" using an "apparatus" anywhere in the world? This is what I have patent pending, in an extremely shortened description, not encompasssing everything.

Lastly, one thing I know for sure, anyone I have met in person, they are blown away.

Safety solves all....................Safety creates all !!!

What was once considered a waste of money, these people don't matter, relative to the cost of "protection", and relative to this "so called" small percentage, turns out to be the KEY TO MOVING THE MASSES..........YOU MUST HAVE SAFETY !!!!

It used to be considered, non sensicle, non affordable, and non reasonable to fix. Now efficiency is everything to do with safety.
Now safety is available TODAY, IS needed YESTERDAY, and is totally cost effective. Let alone opens the door for the capability of moving an extra 1 MILLION PASSENGERS DAILY, AND BALANCING YOUR BOOKS, WITH AN EXTRA 1 BILLION IN THE BANK YEARLY. This is what TTC is going to learn in my meeting. How easy this is. and how affordable it is. and that it is available TODAY, not 15 to 25 years from now,...the course they are have no other option for, unless they use 'NEW TECHNOLOGY'...."SEPARATED PASSENGER FLOW".
sHARON.:eek:
bY THE way , I'm not smiling because I am coy. I am smiling only because that's my personality. My nick name growing up wall "smiley".:cool:
 
The usefulness of platform screen doors is eleminated if there is room between the PSD's and the train doors.

Let's say the train comes in, the OUT doors open and all the passengers leave. then the IN doors open and there is the mad dash of people trying to get to the train before everyone else.

Then the IN doors close but there's still people on the train side of the platform. There is the same pushing and shoving with people trying to get into an already full train. The door operator closes the train doors but not everyone is inside the train. This results in people remaining on the track side of the platform to crowd the doors of the next train, so ultimately, the PSD's are not utilized since there's already people on the other side of the doors!!

And I haven't even mentioned the waste of usable platform space. The design essentially locks out 20% of the platform of the station from passengers. The platform is incredibly full now, and if your PSD's were implemented, then we'd have people standing on the stairs leading to the station.

Bottom line is, PSD's require ATC and the doors should be placed at the edge of the platform.
 
So is this silly system of roped off in/out streams of people we saw you with on Dragon's Den? I can see why the case was never opened.
 
Asterix,

As far as the lobby list. Actually, I did try getting on that list, I some how messed it up. So the intent was there. and I haven't attempted it again.

Do you really think this is an acceptable excuse?

http://www.toronto.ca/lobbying/basics.htm

http://www.toronto.ca/lobbying/reg_no_reg.htm

"If you still have difficulty after reviewing the information below, please contact us. We’re always pleased to help."

http://www.toronto.ca/lobbying/contactus.htm

Surely if you are swinging all these meetings you could manage the process of registering as a lobbyist. And it isn't just some optional thing that people can choose to do or not do. It's the law: http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/municode/1184_140.pdf

Everything for me is a little unusual and dicey. Mostly because of some of the things I have uncovered while inventing.
But the main thing is, I don't actually have a product to sell unless it is OFFICIALLY, UNIQUE, NOVEL, & USEFUL, in otherwords, first in the world in the mind of the US and Canadian Patent Officials. This takes some time.

Backtracking now? You've gone on at length about your amazing "innovation" and patented product/process. Is this not what you are telling officials in your meetings or are you just talking in generalities, like suggesting they implement safety so people don't die or so as to help speed up passenger flow?

To date, not one person, anywhere within my research or people I have wrote to , or spoken with have said, Oh, this isn't new, they are already doing this in.

So all the examples others have mentioned in this thread don't count?

I have spoken to transit agency people around the world, several associations, train specialies, train suppliers & manufactures, queing specialists, and hundreds of hours researching on the net.

And exactly how many of them have actually done anything directly in response to your discussions and modeled after your "innovation"? How come none of them told you there are actually building and safety codes that need to be met and doors from Walmart are not going to measure up?

Let's look at Yonge & Bloor specifically. No, it would not be 1 or 2 feet back from the edge. In this scenerio, it would be a straight wall, all along the inner portions of those floor diamonds. The diamond corner closet to the platform edge. Can everyone visualize this. Well Monday morning, look at the platform floor and say to yourself, HHmmm, let's pretend we have a straight wall, all along these diamond corners, and then we would visualize about 10 foot openings (walkthrough sections) and IN SECTION, THEN AN OUT SECTION, THEN AND IN SECTION ETC.

It's already been pointed out you do not have platform capacity to wall off what would be at a minimum 20% of the platform for passengers waiting to board:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/78/BloorTTCstationempty.JPG

You've also been asked to explain how you keep the restricted area clear when the doors close.

Might you also explain how you avoid the dual-direction traffic at the platform doors when they open to release those exiting the train? (Same concept as the subway doors, now just shifted 10 or so feet back.) Keep in mind that with the crowded platform, you can't expect to keep those waiting to board to cluster around only half the doors (those designated as 'IN' doors), leaving no one trying to enter the 'OUT' doors.

Further to this, would be a set of say red flashing lights on the inner platform doors, warning the people these doors are closing in say 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, just like the warning sign on cross walks.

And these flashing red lights are different from the flashing orange lights combined with chimes that currently warn people the doors are closing how?

I have a different solution for all the other platforms. But fixing Yonge & Bloor is an Ultimate & Key Needed Solution. I think, and honestly think I hold it. No one has shown me otherwise, for not want of trying. If it is out there, please tell me, so that I can stop my "OBSESSION".

It's been explained before. You just chose to pretend you didn't see it. In order to increase capacity on the Yonge line you need to decrease headways. Without ATC it is unsafe for trains to travel with smaller headways. With ATC, they will be able to run X more trains an hour along the line. X trains times 1000-1200/train gives you your resulting increased capacity.

That evidence is even clear by all these blogs. Are they called blogs? I don't even know.

Again, you were told in this specific thread months ago this is not a blog. Just one of many responding posts you ignored, choosing instead to repeat the same disproved assertions.

Lastly, one thing I know for sure, anyone I have met in person, they are blown away.

So why have none of these Toronto officials and politicians made any public mention of this ground-breaking innovation? Are they that disinterested in furthering their careers?
 
Sharon, let's pretend for one second that any bit of your plan makes sense.

How is any of this cheaper than a regular platform barrier? Please don't say grocery-store sliding doors...we've been over that already.
 
Sharon, let's pretend for one second that any bit of your plan makes sense.

How is any of this cheaper than a regular platform barrier? Please don't say grocery-store sliding doors...we've been over that already.

I'm sorry I have to. There is only one invention in the world for platform safety (for the most part). How much profit do you think they make. Hords.

You say money by contracting out a sliding door company, a post and headers company, without the massive costs for a "middle man". You like would still have a project manager, but just to keep things on schedule, safe etc.

As for Asterix's comments.

The key issue you don't answer is how are you going to reduce dwell time for Yonge & Bloor from a 60 to 90 second dwell down to a 30 second dwell. Do you really think more of those burgandy coats are going to do the job with people, to people altercations, I don't think so. Besides, the persons in burgandy coats are not going to stop the track fires, the suicides etc.
 
Do you really think more of those burgandy coats are going to do the job with people, to people altercations, I don't think so. Besides, the persons in burgandy coats are not going to stop the track fires, the suicides etc.
They might not stop track fires and suicides ... but they won't kill as many people as your suggestions about installing low-grade doors in a subway station that are going to result in people being caught between the train and the doors ... and will likely fail catastrophically the first time there is crush loading on the platform, with many people being pushed onto the tracks!

Your door suggestions in this forum at best are dangerous, and put human safety at risk. At worst they are criminally negligent.
 
Let me just recap the things that I feel are the problems if these doors were placed at Yonge and Bloor:

1. Giving up 20% of the platform space in a station that is already exceeding capacity.
2. People get stuck between doors and train.
3. Doors are gonna be flimsy and may break when there's people pushed up against it.
4. Does nothing to increase the number of trains that can go through the station which is one of the main reasons PSD's are installed.
5. Decreases passenger safety when people try to crowd the 20% platform on the train side of the doors (Pushing people onto tracks etc)

There may be many more problems (and many are listed above by others), but I think the one's listed should suffice to conclude that this design is bad, dangerous and negligent as noted above.
 
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The key issue you don't answer is how are you going to reduce dwell time for Yonge & Bloor from a 60 to 90 second dwell down to a 30 second dwell. Do you really think more of those burgandy coats are going to do the job with people, to people altercations, I don't think so. Besides, the persons in burgandy coats are not going to stop the track fires, the suicides etc.

You need to think this through logically.

Why is there such a long dwell time at Y&B? Because X number of people want to get on/off trains at that station each hour. Due to safety constraints with headways, there is a limit of only Y trains per hour that can pass through the station. Since X/Y is a fairly large number per train, that takes a sizable length of time to service the station.

Now, with ATC, headways can be significantly reduced. YY trains per hour is now much more than Y trains per hour, so your value for X/YY is a lot lower (fewer people per train wanting to get on/off).

With a smaller X/YY, you don't need as much time to service the station. It's the reason why dwell time is a lot less, even during the peak, at Rosedale than at Y&B.

Is there anything here you don't understand?
 
You need to think this through logically.

Why is there such a long dwell time at Y&B? Because X number of people want to get on/off trains at that station each hour. Due to safety constraints with headways, there is a limit of only Y trains per hour that can pass through the station. Since X/Y is a fairly large number per train, that takes a sizable length of time to service the station.

Now, with ATC, headways can be significantly reduced. YY trains per hour is now much more than Y trains per hour, so your value for X/YY is a lot lower (fewer people per train wanting to get on/off).

With a smaller X/YY, you don't need as much time to service the station. It's the reason why dwell time is a lot less, even during the peak, at Rosedale than at Y&B.

Is there anything here you don't understand?

There are 2 main points. Hopefully, this expanation will be clear. Now we know how it's true. What is it? 80 - 90% percent of communication is non-verbal. I really am trying to do the best job I can in communicating through this means. Here we go

POINT #1 - ON automatic train control:

According to TTC's own words, Charles Wheeler, a TTC employee, in his 59 page report states, on page 32, that ( I am rephrasing for simplicity sake) and please look it up, (google, Charles Wheeler December 2009 Report), Post it here for that matter for all to see.

Anyway on page 32, it states, unless the Yonge & Bloor Dwell time is reduced to 30 seconds, that no trains can be added on the systems. In otherwise, nothing become more efficient and there is NO CAPACITY IMPROVEMENT ACHIEVED. I know that all the media, and news reports by commissioners state that all will be well with ATC, but TTC's own report denies this. The problem lies with the fact that the public is misinformed and deceived into thinking that everything with be hunky dory, when we get that ATC installed.

FACT IS: ATC will do nothing for Capacity Improvement without the Dwell at Yonge & Bloor reduced to 30 seconds.

POINT #2 - ON Yonge & Bloor Dwell time reduction:

there are only 2 solutions: 1. Put in a double sided platform. Which is not in the cards.

OR...........the Yonge/Bloor extented Dwell Time Problem.

2. REMOVE THE TRADITIONAL WALL OF 30 PEOPLE STANDING DIRECTLY INFRONT OF EVERY TRAIN EXIT DOOR.

The only way to do this is with a configuration using a physical component to "separate passenger flow", such that people can egress off a train, smoothly, efficiency and uninhibited. Turning your body sideways, wiggling out the train door, single file, is not efficient use of train dwell time.

Passenger flow must be 'SEPARATED', FOR ULTIMATE EFFICIENCY OF TRAIN DWELL TIME.

This is ALL THAT I have ever said. I have several possible designs that accomplish this. But the point is, passenger flow must be separated to create ultimate efficiency. Layout choice is not my call, product choice is not my call.

Does anyone disagree with point #1 or point #2. These are the major issues. What input, solutions, ideas, or thoughts or facts contradive, does anyone have to say. I would love to hear them.

TTC has attempted to separate passenger flow to a certain extend. It is proven now, that this works. There is also train simulation proof that further suggests, just by changing passenger "attitude" that dwell times are consistently reduced by 18 seconds. EIGHTEEN SECOND CONTINUOUS REDECED DWELL TIME, IS HUGE IN THE TRANSIT BUSINESS.

Permanent attitude is changed by a "physical component" that separates passenger flow. No where in the world have I found a "physical apparatus" that separates passenger flow" for a single sided train platfom that I have found. Does anyone know if it exists? I have spent 2 years searching, and to date I have not found it.
 
Do you even read all the posts??

Your design does N-O-T-H-I-N-G to improve the dwell times!! Why don't you understand this?? Showing various documents doesn't change the fact that your design decreases passenger safety!!

Read all the posts and answer all the questions raised by everyone!!
 
According to TTC's own words, Charles Wheeler, a TTC employee, in his 59 page report states, on page 32, that ( I am rephrasing for simplicity sake) and please look it up, (google, Charles Wheeler December 2009 Report), Post it here for that matter for all to see.

Anyway on page 32, it states, unless the Yonge & Bloor Dwell time is reduced to 30 seconds, that no trains can be added on the systems. In otherwise, nothing become more efficient and there is NO CAPACITY IMPROVEMENT ACHIEVED. I know that all the media, and news reports by commissioners state that all will be well with ATC, but TTC's own report denies this. The problem lies with the fact that the public is misinformed and deceived into thinking that everything with be hunky dory, when we get that ATC installed.

FACT IS: ATC will do nothing for Capacity Improvement without the Dwell at Yonge & Bloor reduced to 30 seconds.

Are you referring to the single sub-bullet point on page 32 of the following?

http://www3.ttc.ca/PDF/About_the_TT...ion_recommended_concept_project_issues_de.pdf

I'd suggest you read more of the presentation slides and take that single sub-bullet in context.

Also have a look at:

http://www.ttc.ca/postings/gso-comr..._Additional_Information_Costs___Ridership.pdf

What the TTC staff that were directing flow in the Y&B experiment were doing was something your proposal does little -- shifting platform usage more evenly along the entire length. Simply keeping those waiting to board away from individual subway doors during the exit phase does nothing to encourage passengers to spread down and make full use of the end cars on the train.
 
You've recognized the problem location (Bloor Station), but I don't think you've understood the problem itself.

The problem isn't that there's a "wall of people" blocking the doors. I make that transfer every day, during peak, and that is simply not the case. There is always a path for exiting passengers. The problem is that the B-D stairs are at the extreme northern end of the platform, so transferring passengers aren't distributing themselves across the length of the trains.

This is not news to anyone. It's an issue of passenger distribution, not passenger flow.

If you were truly concerned about safety you'd be advocating barriers for Yonge Station (downstairs), by far the most dangerous in terms of passenger safety. And there is NO WAY they have 2m per side to spare down there.

But I guess you're not an advocate for safety...you're an "inventor".
 
There's a simple reason Walmart doors won't work: air pressure. Just imagine what'll happen to cheap, uncertified (for industrial use) sliding doors with repeated exposure to blasts of air pressure from speeding trains. You could slow the trains down, but then that would increase headways.

Anyway, rest assured there is no way that the TTC would use cheap sliding doors from Walmart. They could be held criminally liable for any injury or death resulting from the use of sub-standard products.

And for Sharon, CSA approved does not mean the doors are not sub-standard for the conditions they are intended to be deployed in. That's the key. The CSA does not certify Walmart doors for use on high traffic subway platforms and in circumstances that subject them to routine, highly cyclical stresses resulting from high air pressure waves.
 
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