denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
An elevated subway would work, but how do we get it above ground? How will it cross the 404 and 401 to get above ground.
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An elevated subway would work, but how do we get it above ground? How will it cross the 404 and 401 to get above ground.
It may not be as pronounced with ICTS as it is with LRT, but those "setup costs" you speak of as a major barrier decrease with every KM that the line is extended as ICTS or LRT vs if it was built as a subway. Even assuming $150M/km for ICTS extensions and $75 M/km for at-grade LRT extensions, you're still $200M/km and $275M/km less than if you were building those extensions as a subway (@ $350M/km).
The most recent number for conversion of the Sheppard Subway to LRT was $600 million, which we can reasonably assume would be about $750 million today (I believe the number was from 2010 or somewhere around there). That means that an ICTS conversion + extension of 3.75km or more is cost-neutral with the subway extension option, and an at-grade LRT conversion + extension of 2.75km or more is cost-neutral. Anything longer than that, and the conversion option is actually more cost efficient than the subway option.
Obviously you can vary the numbers a little bit to end up with a different "break even" length, but the basic principle is the same. For every KM you extend as LRT or ICTS, the more cost efficient the conversion + extension option becomes.
That's true. There are many ways to limit sound, but the reality is you're going to need some kind of a vertical barrier extending up from track level to block sound, whether it be opaque, translucent (tinted glass), or transparent (clear glass). That piercing screech of the metal wheels would be audible from a fair distance away if it was emanating from an open-air elevated station. I simply proposed the canopy/archway because if you're going to be putting up vertical soundproofing, you might as well cover the tracks to get snow and ice protection, as well as a bigger degree of climate control as well.
And yes you can build heated elevated stations, but open air stations are much harder to heat, for obvious reasons. At least with canopied tracks and a covered elevated station, heating would be much easier.
To a transportation engineer elevated lines are great. To an urban designer they are the worst possible solution.
You may be right. We are spending $8B on this first phase of LRT, and there was very little thought put into actually transporting people. The urban designers also have enough power that they are able to prevent the public from seeing the options that most effectively move people - which is what the public wants. And the evidence is that there is no problem with elevated transit (see STC, the most popular part of the SRT to live next to, and Vancouver).
No thought at all into moving people. The Eglinton LRT won't move anybody, since it's not fully grade separated! If it were elevated in the east it would move tons of people, but since it's at grade, it won't move anybody effectively. No one will ride it, they will just admire how pretty the LRVs look on the perfectly designed urban avenue with mid-rise and patios! It will glide gracefully by as people smile and nod from the organic coffee shop patios on a beautiful summers day shaded by big trees with the *ring ring* of bicycles swishing by on bike lanes, live jazz music playing in the background! Welcome to the disaster, the David Miller vision of St Clair-izing the city!
No thought at all into moving people. The Eglinton LRT won't move anybody, since it's not fully grade separated! If it were elevated in the east it would move tons of people, but since it's at grade, it won't move anybody effectively. No one will ride it, they will just admire how pretty the LRVs look on the perfectly designed urban avenue with mid-rise and patios! It will glide gracefully by as people smile and nod from the organic coffee shop patios on a beautiful summers day shaded by big trees with the *ring ring* of bicycles swishing by on bike lanes, live jazz music playing in the background! Welcome to the disaster, the David Miller vision of St Clair-izing the city!