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oakvilleBee said:
IMO they are only pretending to be serious. This thing will never be built (at least not within any of our lifetimes). Even the most pro-highway people could easily find many other projects that offer way better value for money (subsidize trucks on the 407 anyone?). As another poster wrote on the 401 tunnel thread, it's purely political theatre.

Trying to stay on topic, as an alternative to burning cash on a 401 tunnel, I'd rather see a Sheppard subway from Pearson to Malvern. More realistically, why is more attention not given to extending Sheppard west to Jane? I bet Oakdale Gold Club would love to sell off some land at the SW corner of Jane/Sheppard which could become super dense.
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Put a stop at Sheppard & Rivalda Rd. for a future, direct connection with the Bolton GO line.
 
oakvilleBee said:
IMO they are only pretending to be serious. This thing will never be built (at least not within any of our lifetimes). Even the most pro-highway people could easily find many other projects that offer way better value for money (subsidize trucks on the 407 anyone?). As another poster wrote on the 401 tunnel thread, it's purely political theatre.

Trying to stay on topic, as an alternative to burning cash on a 401 tunnel, I'd rather see a Sheppard subway from Pearson to Malvern. More realistically, why is more attention not given to extending Sheppard west to Jane? I bet Oakdale Golf Club would love to sell off some land at the SW corner of Jane/Sheppard which could become super dense.
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Even Line 4 Sheppard running form Pearson to the Toronto Zoo is a much better use of taxpayer money.
 
oakvilleBee said:
IMO they are only pretending to be serious. This thing will never be built (at least not within any of our lifetimes). Even the most pro-highway people could easily find many other projects that offer way better value for money (subsidize trucks on the 407 anyone?). As another poster wrote on the 401 tunnel thread, it's purely political theatre.

Trying to stay on topic, as an alternative to burning cash on a 401 tunnel, I'd rather see a Sheppard subway from Pearson to Malvern. More realistically, why is more attention not given to extending Sheppard west to Jane? I bet Oakdale Golf Club would love to sell off some land at the SW corner of Jane/Sheppard which could become super dense.
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The tunnel that our asshole Premier is proposing would be 55 km and the longest in the world, and probably the most expensive (source below). Even if they are pretending to be serious and are doing this just for attention is insane, because how could anyone possibly be in favour of this project when we have Highway 407 that would be better value for money since it's already built, and also having highways at two locations is better than a 401 and an underground super-express 401. Even the uninformed population isn't stupid enough to support this. The logic behind pretending to be serious just isn't there, so I'm so confused as to what Ford and his cabinet is trying to do here.
 
mikey7767 said:
Even the uninformed population isn't stupid enough to support this. The logic behind pretending to be serious just isn't there, so I'm so confused as to what Ford and his cabinet is trying to do here.
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Whilst part of me is hopeful that you're right, the realistic part of me knows that this is unfortunately not true. Everyone knows how infamous the 401 is for it's traffic, and proposing a mega project to try and fix that traffic is absolutely something that will win over votes from people who don't think twice about this stuff.
 
ARG1 said:
Whilst part of me is hopeful that you're right, the realistic part of me knows that this is unfortunately not true. Everyone knows how infamous the 401 is for it's traffic, and proposing a mega project to try and fix that traffic is absolutely something that will win over votes from people who don't think twice about this stuff.
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This is the only level of analysis that we need to worry about - for now.

Ford has set out to buy votes by demonstrating his empathy with GTA residents who are concerned about and impacted by the growth of traffic congestion (which is, objectively, reaching gridlock in many places.)

An actual tunnel would be a 15-to-20- year proposition to design and build.... so it offers little or no relief for current drivers. If you are using the 401 today to commute, you will likely retire before a tunnel could open. But these drivers will find comfort that Douggie is out there working on a "solution" on their behalf.

The actual tunnel is simply vapourware, much as Wynne's High Speed Rail line was. It's just an abstract bit of virtue signalling.

What does worry me would be if/when Ford's people do try to shoehorn some funding into their budget. That would inevitably squeeze out many things that Ontario needs more (transit being only one). But I bet that is at least one election cycle away. Ford may be a dope, but his budget staff know their numbers - just as Wynne's people knew the numbers when she promised GO RER and HSR.

- Paul
 
mikey7767 said:
The tunnel that our asshole Premier is proposing would be 55 km and the longest in the world, and probably the most expensive (source below). Even if they are pretending to be serious and are doing this just for attention is insane, because how could anyone possibly be in favour of this project when we have Highway 407 that would be better value for money since it's already built, and also having highways at two locations is better than a 401 and an underground super-express 401. Even the uninformed population isn't stupid enough to support this. The logic behind pretending to be serious just isn't there, so I'm so confused as to what Ford and his cabinet is trying to do here.
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I believe the 401 tunnel plan is nothing more than to make highway 413 look better by comparison.

"Folks, we crunched the numbers and my experts say the highway 401 tunnel plan just isn't feasible, but we have to do something. This is why its imperative we move ahead with Highway 413. It will be 1/10th the cost of a tunnel and do just as much to solve traffic problems in this city (it will do nothing to help by the way, but saying 'just as much' is a sneaky way around that)"
 
robmausser said:
I believe the 401 tunnel plan is nothing more than to make highway 413 look better by comparison.

"Folks, we crunched the numbers and my experts say the highway 401 tunnel plan just isn't feasible, but we have to do something. This is why its imperative we move ahead with Highway 413. It will be 1/10th the cost of a tunnel and do just as much to solve traffic problems in this city (it will do nothing to help by the way, but saying 'just as much' is a sneaky way around that)"
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That actually makes sense. Distract and use something that is unpalatable to make another unpalatable thing less unpalatable.
 
robmausser said:
I believe the 401 tunnel plan is nothing more than to make highway 413 look better by comparison.

"Folks, we crunched the numbers and my experts say the highway 401 tunnel plan just isn't feasible, but we have to do something. This is why its imperative we move ahead with Highway 413. It will be 1/10th the cost of a tunnel and do just as much to solve traffic problems in this city (it will do nothing to help by the way, but saying 'just as much' is a sneaky way around that)"
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Standard engineering consultancy practice of strategically juxtaposing design alternatives.
 
mikey7767 said:
And now, they wanna come after my bike lanes. Ford wants to ban new bike lanes if it will affect a car lane.
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Does this include parking lanes. For me it’s time for on street parking to go extinct. I’d rather have wider sidewalks, wider bike lanes, than to save spots for parking. And parking on places like DuPont or Dufferin just slow down the whole street. Waiting and watching people attempt to parallel park on places like St clair is a test of patience. Again larger sidewalks and larger bike lanes.and make sure every streetcar has its own lane. We’ve over complicated this problem.

Can someone explain to me the practical purpose of the grass between the curb and the sidewalks in the suburbs. Remove that grass and throw in a bike Lane without taking anything away from cars.
 
sixrings said:
Does this include parking lanes. For me it’s time for on street parking to go extinct. I’d rather have wider sidewalks, wider bike lanes, than to save spots for parking. And parking on places like DuPont or Dufferin just slow down the whole street. Waiting and watching people attempt to parallel park on places like St clair is a test of patience. Again larger sidewalks and larger bike lanes.and make sure every streetcar has its own lane. We’ve over complicated this problem.

Can someone explain to me the practical purpose of the grass between the curb and the sidewalks in the suburbs. Remove that grass and throw in a bike Lane without taking anything away from cars.
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It would assume that it does include parking lanes, since they are regular traffic lanes where cars are just permitted to park for the most part.
 
sixrings said:
Does this include parking lanes. For me it’s time for on street parking to go extinct. I’d rather have wider sidewalks, wider bike lanes, than to save spots for parking. And parking on places like DuPont or Dufferin just slow down the whole street. Waiting and watching people attempt to parallel park on places like St clair is a test of patience. Again larger sidewalks and larger bike lanes.and make sure every streetcar has its own lane. We’ve over complicated this problem.

Can someone explain to me the practical purpose of the grass between the curb and the sidewalks in the suburbs. Remove that grass and throw in a bike Lane without taking anything away from cars.
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I've thought of this often, but no one who opposes bike lanes ever brings this up.

The bike lanes aren't replacing vehicle lanes, they're replacing street parking which is a horrible use of space in 2024.
 
sixrings said:
Does this include parking lanes. For me it’s time for on street parking to go extinct. I’d rather have wider sidewalks, wider bike lanes, than to save spots for parking. And parking on places like DuPont or Dufferin just slow down the whole street. Waiting and watching people attempt to parallel park on places like St clair is a test of patience. Again larger sidewalks and larger bike lanes.and make sure every streetcar has its own lane. We’ve over complicated this problem.

Can someone explain to me the practical purpose of the grass between the curb and the sidewalks in the suburbs. Remove that grass and throw in a bike Lane without taking anything away from cars.
Click to expand...
People searching for and entering/exiting on-street parking is a big contributor to congestion as well.
 
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