[scarberiankhatru]

Running to Wilson instead of Downsivew makes no sense if you try to justify it with 'objective' criteria (as opposed to fantasy-map alignments, which don't really need to be justified). Wilson ends at Weston just as Sheppard does, is not longer than Sheppard, and doesn't have more stuff on it...being midway between two points means nothing. Not that it'll ever be extended west of Downsview, but going to Downsview leaves the option of serving Parc Downsview Park, York U, Jane & Finch, Rexdale, etc. A good alignment is to run west to Sheppard & Keele, then swing up to Jane & Finch and go over to Humber. Downsview station's alignment makes running Sheppard NW with the Spadina extension highly unlikely since they cannot both share a corridor/tracks and intersect at Downsivew (it's either one or the other) and since turning the Sheppard line into a branch of the Spadina offers no real benefits, Sheppard is free to find its own way (and, potentially, nip the Jane Transfer City line in the bud as it's spiralling out of control).

Going to Wilson means almost an extra km of track (mostly tunnelled under houses and with no viable stops along the way), it means serving the concrete wasteland around Wilson station with a massive infrastructural investment (instead of an intensifying corridor with stops at Faywood and Downsview), and it punishes riders trying to transfer between the Sheppard line and the Spadina extension with a diversion down to Wilson.

 

[Rainforest]

Running to Wilson instead of Downsivew makes no sense if you try to justify it with 'objective' criteria (as opposed to fantasy-map alignments, which don't really need to be justified). Wilson ends at Weston just as Sheppard does, is not longer than Sheppard, and doesn't have more stuff on it...being midway between two points means nothing.

Being midway between other rapid routes means better average access times for the area.

Plus, running to Wilson will likely make it easier to connect to the yard. If the line goes along Sheppard to Downsview, it will probably need extra tracks running beyond Allen and then turning south to connect to the yard.

Not that it'll ever be extended west of Downsview, but going to Downsview leaves the option of serving Parc Downsview Park, York U, Jane & Finch, Rexdale, etc. A good alignment is to run west to Sheppard & Keele, then swing up to Jane & Finch and go over to Humber.

This is an interesting alignment. But the existence of Finch W LRT will weaken the case for a concurrent subway along Finch west of Jane.

Downsview station's alignment makes running Sheppard NW with the Spadina extension highly unlikely since they cannot both share a corridor/tracks and intersect at Downsivew (it's either one or the other) and since turning the Sheppard line into a branch of the Spadina offers no real benefits, Sheppard is free to find its own way (and, potentially, nip the Jane Transfer City line in the bud as it's spiralling out of control).

Westward extension of Sheppard subway is very unlikely to affect Jane LRT. By the time such extension makes it into the agenda, Jane LRT will either be built long ago, or well forgotten.

Going to Wilson means almost an extra km of track (mostly tunnelled under houses and with no viable stops along the way), ...

The tunneled length will be about same, taking into account the underground station and the tail tracks connecting to the yard needed in Downsview case.

... it means serving the concrete wasteland around Wilson station with a massive infrastructural investment (instead of an intensifying corridor with stops at Faywood and Downsview), ...

This is true, the line will get more local users if it stays on Sheppard between Yonge and Downsview.

... and it punishes riders trying to transfer between the Sheppard line and the Spadina extension with a diversion down to Wilson.

Not really: the difference in travel time will be measured a few minutes. On the flip side, those traveling to Yorkdale will see their travel time reduced slightly.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Being midway between other rapid routes means better average access times for the area.

Being midway between two streetcar lines is a meaningless indicator of a subway route's potential, especially because we're only talking about a 6km stretch of Wilson. People don't "access" transit near them just because it's near them, they take the routes that get them where they need to go.

Plus, running to Wilson will likely make it easier to connect to the yard. If the line goes along Sheppard to Downsview, it will probably need extra tracks running beyond Allen and then turning south to connect to the yard.

Since when is a possibly easier yard connection more important than riders? Subway lines don't exist to shuttle subway trains around the city. The to-Wilson track total, including tail tracks, is over 3km, all for one stop west of Bathurst.

This is an interesting alignment. But the existence of Finch W LRT will weaken the case for a concurrent subway along Finch west of Jane.

Both the Finch streetcar and an extension of Sheppard are, at this stage, entirely theoretical...construction hasn't started and nothing is set in stone. Running a subway along Finch would obviously replace the streetcar.

Not really: the difference in travel time will be measured a few minutes. On the flip side, those traveling to Yorkdale will see their travel time reduced slightly.

Offering an almost trivial travel time reduction for those going south does so at the clear expense of people going north, taking them several km out of their way for absolutely no reason. You'd need to retain bus service on Sheppard West, too.

 

[ShonTron]

I must admit I was intrigued by the idea of moving the Sheppard Line down to Wilson, but Scarberian's right. Downsview's probably the last point west for the line in the medium term, and would at least be able to capture people to and from the Sorbara Line. I was intrigued because Sheppard west of Downsview is a black hole (Downsview Park will likely never be a great opportunity, I don't think), and Wilson has more potential heading towards Jane than Sheppard. Missing the Idomo area, and heading straight down to Wilson Station is really silly, there will only be limited opportunity there unless DeHavilland shuts down and the runway is decommissioned (which is why not much beside big-box retail could go where Costco and Home Depot are).

If it is ever decided to go down to Wilson, better to follow the CN line - there's a former propane depot that is conveniently cleared for redevelopment!

Rainforest, I'll let you know it's hard to win an argument with Scarberian on transit planning. Just a heads up.

 

[Rainforest]

Rainforest, I'll let you know it's hard to win an argument with Scarberian on transit planning. Just a heads up.

Sure, Scarberian is good at debating : )

However, the goal of my posts is to share ideas, not to win at any cost. Scarberian and others are welcome to critisize my proposals.

 

[Edward Skira]

Plus, running to Wilson will likely make it easier to connect to the yard. If the line goes along Sheppard to Downsview, it will probably need extra tracks running beyond Allen and then turning south to connect to the yard.

unimaginative2 indicated in the Sheppard Subway west thread that Downsview Station was designed to accommodate a future Sheppard line so this seems the most cost effective plan. Besides it seems silly to send York students all the way down to Wilson to turn back. Meanwhile people heading downtown are only marginally going to have to go further west before they head downtown.

 

[Dan416]

Who would prefer this?

to this:

Yes I know it's a TTC image but it's the best way to make a point.

As for the stations I chose, I just chose streets that didn't already have stations further south to avoid confusion. Except for Bathurst, there wasn't really any other choice there.

 

[W. K. Lis]

It would cost more than the cost of all 7 Transit City LRT lines.

 

[junctionist]

An extension for now would be most welcome, with a commitment to complete it in the long term.

We're so close, yet so far.

 

[doady]

It would cost more than the cost of all 7 Transit City LRT lines.

No it wouldn't, even if you took out the Morningside and Sheppard LRTs and did not factor in the costs of refurbishing the Scarborough RT, which all would become completely unnecessary if the subway lines were finished.

 

[Ansem]

By dropping the Jane LRT you could finance part of the line and make it go eastbound

Jane will be expensive since they have been talking of digging south of wilson.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

It would cost more than the cost of all 7 Transit City LRT lines.

Err, no. At the very least you'd be able to build the subway lines on the map, the Eglinton LRT line as planned (partially underground), and another whole line like the Waterfront or Finch West. Or some other combination.

 

[Kitsune]

Shouldnt the two bathurst stations line up on the map, or does bathurst curve a little?

 

[Dan416]

Shouldnt the two bathurst stations line up on the map, or does bathurst curve a little?

I was wondering the same thing. But I guess we have to remember that the TTC map isn't to scale.

And I don't think what I've put on this map is that expensive. The extension to Downsview would be pretty cheap. And we have to replace the SRT anyway, and it can be replaced with just a station at Lawrence East plus Scarborough Centre. So it's not a long extension at all. It's just such a logical thing to do, and it just LOOKS right.

And I'm surprised no one has complained that i put in too many stops between Don Mills and Scarborough Centre: Consumers, Pharmacy, Birchmount, Midland, Brimley.

I also made sure that Warden was vertically aligned with St. Clair, Kennedy is vertically aligned with Eglinton, and Lawrence East is aligned with Lawrence and Lawrence West.

 

[golodhendil]

Shouldnt the two bathurst stations line up on the map, or does bathurst curve a little?

They would if the Spadina branch is moved to line up more with Ossington/Dufferin, where it should be.