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Have you guys ever seen the layout of a typical power centre??? Heartland, Orion Gate, 7 and 400, they don't even come close to this.
It doesn't mean we should applaud failure. We should still demand better. We've had all the big-box stuff go in at Yonge-Dundas in recent years, without parking lots along the edge of the road.

Heck, even the big box stuff at Leslie/Lakeshore has the parking underneath and behind the buildings; and a quasi-decent streetscape along Lakeshore; shaem there weren't more entrances, but it's a start.
 
They should have at least lined Don Mills with some smaller stores. As it is, they totally destroyed Don Mills with those huge parking lots. Is that where condos will go? I hope so. (With retail on the first floor, of course) That's a no brainer!
 
It doesn't mean we should applaud failure. We should still demand better. We've had all the big-box stuff go in at Yonge-Dundas in recent years, without parking lots along the edge of the road.

You can't expect them all to be built like the downtown flagship stores. After all, even conventional shopping malls have fallen out of favour with developers and retailers... which is the reason Don Mills Centre is being redeveloped at all in the first place.

Heck, even the big box stuff at Leslie/Lakeshore has the parking underneath and behind the buildings; and a quasi-decent streetscape along Lakeshore; shaem there weren't more entrances, but it's a start.

That's still typical big box though: single-storey, industrial area with low property values, highway access, etc. In the end it is still a car-oriented development with some compromises, just like Don Mills. Some power centre structures in Mississauga have parking at the back too, but it does not improve things. In fact, in some ways it is even more inconvenient for pedestrians.
 
The new Don Mills Centre reminds me a lot of Kanata Centrum in Ottawa. Basically just a typical suburban mall with pedestrian friendly walkways surrounded by parking lots. I'll admit that Don Mills Centre is slightly better designed but still no where near great

For those that aren't familiar with it here are some pictures and a google map view

Kanata Centrum Google Map

Pictures:
Walkway
Theatre with Courtyard
Walkway 2
 
The new Don Mills Centre reminds me a lot of Kanata Centrum in Ottawa. Basically just a typical suburban mall with pedestrian friendly walkways surrounded by parking lots. I'll admit that Don Mills Centre is slightly better designed but still no where near great

For those that aren't familiar with it here are some pictures and a google map view

Kanata Centrum Google Map

Pictures:
Walkway
Theatre with Courtyard
Walkway 2

Don't they have something similar to that in Vaughan? I'm not sure what it's called but it's right next to Ikea.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...282,-79.530544&spn=0.002881,0.006952&t=h&z=18
 
I really don't understand the point of redeveloping these suburban malls as outdoor shopping centres. The basic experience of shopping at the new Don Mills Centre will be just like shopping at the old one, except without a roof over your head to protect you from the elements. Removing the roof doesn't mean the stores have become integrated into the neighbourhood anymore than they were in the original indoor mall.
 
I really don't understand the point of redeveloping these suburban malls as outdoor shopping centres. The basic experience of shopping at the new Don Mills Centre will be just like shopping at the old one, except without a roof over your head to protect you from the elements. Removing the roof doesn't mean the stores have become integrated into the neighbourhood anymore than they were in the original indoor mall.

The point of redevelopment is not to integrate into the surrounding neighbourhood. The point is switch to a format that is more profitable for the owners and more attractive to retailers. The shopping mall is a dying format, it is simple as that. And IMO that is a bad thing as power centres are isolated and take up even more space and are even less pedestrian friendly than malls.
 
The quicker cookie cutter malls die out, the happier I will be. Maybe it will encourage retail streets and condos with retail on more suburban streets. It might even encourage a few decent urban style neighbourhoods and get people out of their cars.
 
But in the case of Don Mills, how far do you go? After all, if things went inexorably along that "urban style neighbourhood" path, you'd be destroying a historic icon of post-WWII suburbia...
 
The quicker cookie cutter malls die out, the happier I will be. Maybe it will encourage retail streets and condos with retail on more suburban streets. It might even encourage a few decent urban style neighbourhoods and get people out of their cars.

No, the death of malls is doing quite the opposite...
 
The quicker cookie cutter malls die out, the happier I will be. Maybe it will encourage retail streets and condos with retail on more suburban streets. It might even encourage a few decent urban style neighbourhoods and get people out of their cars.

No, the death of malls is doing quite the opposite...

I have to agree with doady on this. It's replacing a mall with a roof with one without a roof. All the parking is still there, except that to dodge the elements you have to be in a store buying things, and if you want to use the bathrooms, I'm sorry but they're for customers only. If you and your friends all want different food, you're out of luck too. There are a lot of malls that do harm to their surroundings, and a lot that are much less harmful or help build a sense of community.

There are many cases where malls do harm. Particularly the ones full of chain stores - the ones you only go to buy things and where employees look down on you for not wearing the right brand or whatever. These are the malls that suck the life out of their communities with giant sprawling parking lots. For example, if all the stores in Square One or STC were on the street with apartments and offices above, MCC and SC would definitely be more urban. In other cases, malls allow smaller business to thrive. Take Hopedale Mall for example. It provides cheaper products and services than you could ever get in Bronte Village (although I admit Bronte Village Mall is just awful for that area's urbanity in that it just takes up space and is pretty much a ghost town).

Here in Peterborough, our downtown mall (Peterborough Square) is pretty harmless to business in the city's core (at least not anymore). In fact, you'll find there many small business that couldn't afford to be on the street. Plus it's the only real place to escape the cold/rain and a good place for seniors to get out of the many retirement homes around it. It does help that it has underground parking and that some stores do open up on to the street.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that malls by nature bad for urbanity, and many malls fit into the urban fabric (the Eaton Centre, PATH, Chinatown Centre, etc.).

We also need to learn that designs and concepts devised in California or Texas or anywhere without our climate will not always work here. Many malls in the GTA were originally built as open-air malls that got roofed over for that reason. Sometimes it just makes more sense to put things inside. Acres of parking aren't required for a mall to work, they're required for the suburbs to work (at least in their current incarnation).
 
Particularly the ones full of chain stores - the ones you only go to buy things and where employees look down on you for not wearing the right brand or whatever. These are the malls that suck the life out of their communities with giant sprawling parking lots. For example, if all the stores in Square One or STC were on the street with apartments and offices above, MCC and SC would definitely be more urban. In other cases, malls allow smaller business to thrive. Take Hopedale Mall for example. It provides cheaper products and services than you could ever get in Bronte Village (although I admit Bronte Village Mall is just awful for that area's urbanity in that it just takes up space and is pretty much a ghost town).

I think you bring up an important difference between malls and power centres. Malls can have chain stores, but they can have independent stores as well. Some of the smaller malls are full of independent stores.

In contrast, power centres have chain stores only.

Malls can be multiple storey structures and they can have office uses on top (like Central Parkway Mall for example). They often have major transit terminals and are surrounded by high rise residential.

In contrast, power centres are almost always located in industrial areas poorly serviced by transit and they always consist of single-storey structures only. To be fair, Don Mills isn't as bad as a typical power centre but that is only because it used to be a mall. You can say the same about Meadowvale and South Common. The only reason they have transit terminals and high rise residential buildings is because they used to be malls.
 
I really don't understand the point of redeveloping these suburban malls as outdoor shopping centres. The basic experience of shopping at the new Don Mills Centre will be just like shopping at the old one, except without a roof over your head to protect you from the elements. Removing the roof doesn't mean the stores have become integrated into the neighbourhood anymore than they were in the original indoor mall.

Me neither. i just read a few previous posts and i can't seem to find a straight answer as to why outdoor mall is better than the indoor mall??

I don't see how outdoor malls work better than indoor malls, especially in Canada where we have long winters. Please enlighten me.

The point of redevelopment is not to integrate into the surrounding neighbourhood. The point is switch to a format that is more profitable for the owners and more attractive to retailers. The shopping mall is a dying format, it is simple as that. And IMO that is a bad thing as power centres are isolated and take up even more space and are even less pedestrian friendly than malls.

How so? i'm just curious, how can retailers be more profitable when they will have less consumers? (I'm assuming less consumers because i'm not a big fan of shopping at an outdoor mall, however, i could be wrong). I always spend most of my time in foodcourts when i go to malls :) , now i don't see that happening here with this new design :mad:

dying format? please explain, i'm so curious that i'm getting sleepless nights over this. hehe.
 
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