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kettal

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Too many Canadians think a two-tier health system allowing both public and private clinics operating in parallel is an evil plot for destruction.

I disagree.

Consider that Canada is the only non-communist country in the world where there is a healthcare monopoly by law. Liberal countries such as Sweden and France have a two-tier system, where private clinics are allowed.

In the WHO best health care systems list, Canada is #30. Numbers 1 through 29 are all countries with a two-tiered system.

So why is it considered political suicide for anybody in Canada to even consider adapting that kind of health care system?
 
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As far as I recall; Canada does have private heathcare. Clinics like Medcan are around now.

I don't recall there ever being a law in this country that banned doctors from working privately.
 
^ Medical tourism is big business. As well as the U.S., you can travel to places like Singapore, Cuba, Costa Rica, etc. on a moments notice and get whatever medical procedure you desire. Why not keep the $ in Canada, maybe it will help decrease waiting periods for everybody else.
 
I don't think just allowing doctors to accept private payments or bypass provincial insurance systems by itself would do all that much. It probably wouldn't hurt anybody, so I guess in that sense I find the endless Canadian harangue about how "two-tier" health care is the work of American corporate jackals somewhat odd.

The Netherlands has an interesting hybrid system. There is system of public insurance for health conditions which would, for the uninsured, almost certainly result in bankruptcy (i.e. chemotherapy), but the government also requires everyone to pick up private insurance for short term health care based on risk equalization (with the gov't providing top ups for anyone that can't afford it). It intuitively reminds me of our car insurance scheme, with the distinction between catastrophic liabilities (killing someone) and minor ones.
 
As far as I recall; Canada does have private heathcare. Clinics like Medcan are around now.

I don't recall there ever being a law in this country that banned doctors from working privately.

I think it's still a grey area. It was illegal (at least in Ontario & Quebec) to operate a clinic that competes with the public facilities. A 2005 supreme court ruling permitted these clinics, but only in certain conditions. That's why they're only showing up now, and their future is uncertain.
 
The CHA prohibits health care providers from accepting private payment for procedures already covered under relevant provincial health plans. In turn, most provinces do have laws formally prohibiting private payment for essential services.

Places like Medcan work because they don't provide services OHIP deems "medically necessary." They can only accept private payment for things like sports medicine, optometry, genetic screening and other un-essential health care services. You couldn't go to them and ask for a hip replacement though, as that would interfere with OHIP.

This came up in Quebec when a guy who wanted his hip replaced took the Quebec government to court over its ban on private health spending. Eventually the law was ruled to be unconstitutional, but not much has happened since then.
 
Too many Canadians think a two-tier health system allowing both public and private clinics operating in parallel is an evil plot for destruction.

I disagree.

Consider that Canada is the only non-communist country in the world where there is a healthcare monopoly by law. Liberal countries such as Sweden and France have a two-tier system, where private clinics are allowed.

Private clinics are allowed in Canada, in fact almost all clinics and doctors offices are private and there are private hospitals as well. However they can only take payment on insured services from OHIP or the other provincial equivalents (there are lots of things that aren't covered by OHIP as mentioned by Whoaccio above). The rules can be different for things like surgery. The 2005 Supreme Court ruling allows you to pay for medically necessary health care that isn't readily available through the public system because of underfunding and unreasonable wait times.

The main issues are things like what private insurance can cover, extra-billing, facility/membership fees, and queue jumping... things like labs and walk-in clinics are all heavily privatized. Doctors (outside of certain ones at hospitals) are generally self-employed, not government employees, but the government heavily regulates their business practices. Imagine if you were operating a business and things like your rent, payroll, paperwork load, and hydro were increasing, and you needed to buy new equipment, but you couldn't increase your prices that you billed to your client (OHIP) or look for new clients that would pay more for your services (private insurance)... that's partly why you will see these extra fees (like for drug dispensing) and extra services continue to increase.
 
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The only way a non-public health care system can be supported is if we have enough doctors. The problem today is that we have a doctor shortage. Fix that and then maybe we can talk about shunting off surplus doctors in to a private system.
 
Doctors in Canada do have the option to opt out of the OHIP payment or other provincial equivalents and receive private payments for services rendered. Not many of them take up this offer for obvious reasons. In a perfect world the Doctors would love to suck and blow at the same time in terms of charging the government and the patient but law prohibits this practice.
 
Doctors in Canada do have the option to opt out of the OHIP payment or other provincial equivalents and receive private payments for services rendered. Not many of them take up this offer for obvious reasons. In a perfect world the Doctors would love to suck and blow at the same time in terms of charging the government and the patient but law prohibits this practice.

In Ontario even if a doctor opts out, they can only charge up to OHIP rates. Plus its illegal for private insurance companies to cover medically necessary things that OHIP covers... so all you could really do is be a doctor for people who can pay out of pocket, but you still couldn't even charge what you wanted to
 
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Too many Canadians think a two-tier health system allowing both public and private clinics operating in parallel is an evil plot for destruction.

I disagree.

Consider that Canada is the only non-communist country in the world where there is a healthcare monopoly by law. Liberal countries such as Sweden and France have a two-tier system, where private clinics are allowed.

Compare what France and Sweden cover vs OHIP....you'll see quite the difference. Why not focus on fixing that instead?
 
I think that encouraging more private practices would be great. Perhaps if big cities like Toronto, Montreal, etc could have one or two private hospitals, the rich/better off could buy into those for better service and much shorter wait times. Of course, they'd still have to support the system, but it'd take pressure off other hospitals and give them the service and shorter wait times they want.

But I, for obvious reasons, am a firm supporter of much more government support for health care and hospitals. From things like refurbishing older hospitals and wards, to buying new equipment, more and better staff and faster services and response times.

Unfortunately, I just can't see the US accepting anything other than a universal-lite health care, basically a two-tiered system where the poor have their hospitals, while the middle class and on can keep their private hospitals.
Crazies :rolleyes:
 
one of the arguments PRO public funded health care in the US is that with a public system, doctor's offices don't have to deal with all kinds of different insurance companies. sometimes they have to hire somebody whose only job is to deal with insurance companies, all kinds of companies that have all kinds of policies. figuring out if john doe's insurance policy covers this or that when john doe goes to the doctor's office wastes alot of time.
 
1.) For all practical purposes, it is illegal to compete with OHIP (or wtv) for essential medical services. The few theoretical legal loopholes are totally impractical. In every way that matters, we ban private payment of health bills and the ability of health care providers to charge what they deem necessary.

2.) The "public" vs. "private" thing can be exaggerated. The issue isn't to have purely public or private healthcare, neither of which has ever existed, but to maximize health care delivery by best using each to its potential while also maintaining certain standards of social justice. As an example, public funding for optometry could be reintroduced using private insurance plans. It's not a zero sum game between the forces of public and private

3.) The actual insurance dimensions are unlikely to achieve any significant improvements in efficiency. More debate needs to be given to improving health care delivery as opposed to insurance. In Canada it's hard to do, given the decentralized nature of our health system. As an example, we know that the cost of a hip replacement can be a quarter of the cost domestically in medical tourism countries (i.e. Singapore) and any system could exploit that, public or private. The amount of potential medical reforms which could lower costs yet have nothing to do with insurance systems is staggering.

4.) Regulating fees may lead to inefficiencies. It's basic economic theory that the supply curve slopes upwards, meaning price ceilings lead to conditions of undersupply. Public insurers could commit to providing funding for socially necessary treatment, while still allowing health care providers to charge extra for those who want it. Limiting access to health care for some doesn't make it more accessible for others, and our current issues regarding wait times for elective surgeries is mostly the result of adopting a zero-sum funding strategy.

5.) We generally need to move away from treating health care like a pay-as-you go system. I think most would agree that health care costs are going up with the geriatric boomer boom. We know a large chunk of society is going to stop earning an income at the same time they will incur much higher health costs. That nobody has suggested forcing these people to save money during healthy years when they are earning for the inevitable geriatric health care costs seems odd to me.

6.) For those under 30 (an arbitrary figure), we should look into moving them onto high deductible plans with mandatory health savings accounts. If you are a spry 20 year old entering the workforce, you simply don't cost very much for the health system. If you managed to budget about 4k a year for long term health costs, by the time you retired you would have a sizable ability to meet your health needs. Rather than simply transferring today's income to elderly boomers, we should start making sure they don't run into the same problem down the road.
 

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