[ssiguy2]

This is far superior to GO or RER. This is a new subway route. I know that may sound odd to Torontonians that subways can't be subways unless they are underground but such is not the case. Most newer subway systems in the world have huge at grade and/or elevated sections and many never go underground at all. Please don't take my word for it, take your own..............Rosedale station is neither elevated or underground and yet is very much part of the Yonge line.

Nor does technology matter. These will just be subway cars that get their power overhead as opposed to third rail. Hell, if you need to have a third rail system to be a subway then I guess London's Underground wouldn't qualify as most of it is forth rail. Overhead catenary subway/metro train system are common. In fact the nearerst subway system to Toronto uses overhead power supply.........Cleveland.

Due to it's grade separation this is a subway line by every definition in the book. Unlike GO or RER, this line will be accessible to all Torontonians regardless of income as this will be part of the TTC and not be subjected to extra/premium fares like GO or RER.

Screw the Smart Track label, this is a new subway line for Toronto.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

This is far superior to GO or RER

No. It's not superior to GO or RER. It is GO RER, and it's a wonderful thing.

If you want to argue that GO RER is essentially a subway rapid transit system within Toronto, that's a reasonable argument to make. But don't act like the service as described by Moore is something unique from RER.

 

[Hopkins123]

John Tory basically lied to the public in order to get elected against the two pro-subway candidates, so he felt the need to booster one of his own as false as that turned out to be.

Now will sanity prevail and have his $8 billion proposed for SmartTrack go instead to a 17-stop Downtown Relief Line from Pape or Donlands to Keele or Dundas West?

 

[rbt]

Now will sanity prevail and have his $8 billion proposed for SmartTrack go instead to a 17-stop Downtown Relief Line from Pape or Donlands to Keele or Dundas West?

Tory never had $8B available or anything even close to it. The reason why recent TTC bus purchases are cash from current, is we're right up against the limit of what we can borrow as a city (without rates going up).

Even finding the $1B for 1/3rd of this plan within city finances without a corresponding tax increase will be really challenging.

 

[Rainforest]

The new version is not going to cost $8 billion. It may cost between $4 and $5 billion, of which $2 billion are baseline GO RER improvements already funded by the province, and $1.3 billion or so is the western extension of Eglinton LRT which has to be build anyway at some point.

 

[M II A II R II K]

If they go ahead with a GO Local service with extra stations, the new trains and stations should be much shorter and be designed for frequent easy getting on and off.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The new version is not going to cost $8 billion. It may cost between $4 and $5 billion, of which $2 billion are baseline GO RER improvements already funded by the province, and $1.3 billion or so is the western extension of Eglinton LRT which has to be build anyway at some point.

The City of Toronto better not be paying a dime for the RER capital improvements.

 

[Rainforest]

The City of Toronto better not be paying a dime for the RER capital improvements.

In principle, I believe that the City should contribute to projects if it benefits from them.

But in this particular case, the RER plan is already 100% funded by the province, AFAIK. Thus, the City is off the hook.

 

[nfitz]

The City of Toronto better not be paying a dime for the RER capital improvements.

We voted in a mayor with a promise to spend billions in his RER upgrade plan. That boat has sailed.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

We voted in a mayor with a promise to spend billions in his RER upgrade plan. That boat has sailed.

Yup.

I've seen some councillors already come out wondering what the hell we'd be paying for, since the province was going to build these RER upgrades without a municipal subsidy anyways. My hope is that Council will vote to fund ECLRT extension and RER fare integration subsidy, but not fund any RER capital upgrades.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

In principle, I believe that the City should contribute to projects if it benefits from them.

But in this particular case, the RER plan is already 100% funded by the province, AFAIK. Thus, the City is off the hook.

Well the City isn't really off the hook. If all was just, we would be off the hook, but it's not year clear if we'll have to pay for it thanks to Tory's campaign promises. Fingers crossed.

 

[Rainforest]

Well the City isn't really off the hook. If all was just, we would be off the hook, but it's not year clear if we'll have to pay for it thanks to Tory's campaign promises. Fingers crossed.

There are two parts of capital expenses. One is is to enable 15-min GO RER service on the selected rail lines, primarily for the benefit of outer 416 and of cities across the border. That part is covered by the provincial $2B finding announced before the SmartTrack plan (the city is "off the hook" there).

The other part is enabling more frequent, every 10-min or 7-min or 5-min service between Mt Dennis and Kennedy; that's how SmartTrack is different from GO RER. Obviously, the city will have to contribute to this project, as it is entirely for the benefit of Toronto and not for our neighbour cities.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The other part is enabling more frequent, every 10-min or 7-min or 5-min service between Mt Dennis and Kennedy; that's how SmartTrack is different from GO RER. Obviously, the city will have to contribute to this project, as it is entirely for the benefit of Toronto and not for our neighbour cities.

Yup. Note that Moore said Mt Dennis and Kennedy 10 min frequencies might not happen; city planning is merely exploring the idea. We'll see. If not, the plan would be identical to RER.

Bringing Mt Dennis and Kennedy to 10 min frequencies, as described by Moore, would simply be adding 2 trains per hour on the Stouffville and Kitchener corridors. If we were to pursue those higher frequencies, the capital cost would be dependant on what infrastructure upgrades (if any) would be needed to support that. It very well could cost nothing additional. I look forward to seeing the pricing.

 

[dowlingm]

Yup.

I've seen some councillors already come out wondering what the hell we'd be paying for, since the province was going to build these RER upgrades without a municipal subsidy anyways. My hope is that Council will vote to fund ECLRT extension and RER fare integration subsidy, but not fund any RER capital upgrades.

That opens the question of who will own the extension. I guess it might be like 407/407 East (City owns, Metrolinx manages) but City is used to getting money and owning stuff, not giving money and having no asset on their books - as with SmartTrack/RER too.

 

[salsa]

In principle, I believe that the City should contribute to projects if it benefits from them.

But in this particular case, the RER plan is already 100% funded by the province, AFAIK. Thus, the City is off the hook.

The Globe article said that "the latest estimate is that the proposed integration of SmartTrack would add $2-billion to $3.5-billion to the existing GO plans". Who do you think is gonna pay for that?