[nfitz]

If you effectively banned the use of those substances, keeping the sale licit wouldn't make much sense at all.

You can't effectively ban such stuff ... well not unless you turn us into the biggest totalitarian state ever ...

 

[wwwebster]

I'd be interested in targeting people standing outside of bars smoking.

Maybe the "logical next step" is...BACKWARDS...to the days of the Designated Smoking Room.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

I am watching this with great interest, as we have problems in our condo where second hand smoke seeps from neighbouring units and it can be nearly intolerable. It comes in through the AC/heat ventilation, from holes in walls around pipes and wiring, etc. I've spray-foamed every crack in our place.

Here's two ideas, try calling Toronto Public Health and/or the Toronto Building Inspector for your area and speak with them about this. Public Health or the Building Inspector could possibly recommend a company who would come into your home, assess how the cigarette & food odors are getting in and make recommendations on how to stop it. The Building Inspector might come out and investigate how this is happening, make recommendations and forward a report to your Property Manager with an order to rectify the situation. The cost to fix this problem might be yours to bear or it may be passed onto either the developer (if your place is still under warranty) or to your condo corp. To my mind this is a deficiency so I'd say fight so you don't have to pay for whatever is necessary to seal your unit.

Walking down the hall, I know that there are precisely two smokers on out entire floor of about 24 units. How do I know? The smell outside the doors. A non-smoker can pick that up easily.

This should be put in writing to your Property Manager and copy the BoD to be investigated and rectified. The hallways should be pressurized, you shouldn't smell any odors in the halls.

 

[ACE]

You don't mind the toxic cooking smells though...you can't pick an choose.

I think we need to get away from using the word 'smells' within this discussion as it could be anything from a rose to a fart.

So, I'll try again.
If people wish to discount the health risks associated with frist hand and/or second hand and or third hand smoke from tobacco based products then that is fine. BUT, you cannot discount the fact that smoke is an irritant. At the very least it is an unpleasant inconvenience to some people. At the worst, it can cause respiratory distress.

As long as you are not doing anything illegal and/or anything which would pose a health and safety risk to another individual, they you should be able to do whatever you wish within the confines of your own residence. It is when a byproduct of your activity enters my residence that I take issue. Just as I have the right to curtail the activity of a resident playing loud music which infiltrates my residence, so should I have the means to prevent a smoker from causing an irritant from their activity entering my residence.

.

 

[nfitz]

Maybe the "logical next step" is...BACKWARDS...to the days of the Designated Smoking Room.

If properly built, sure; I think the problem was that more often or not, they failed to maintain negative pressure, particularly witht the door frequently open. However this leads to another option (yes, I see the smiley), we go backwards even further, and require that smokers head to the outhouse!

 

[AGTO]

you cannot discount the fact that smoke is an irritant.

The smoke produced by burnt food is an irritant. The smoke produced by internal combustion engines is also an irritant. Why isn't anyone concerned with that?

we go backwards even further, and require that smokers head to the outhouse!

...and kitchens should be in a seperate building, like they were in the "olden days".

 

[ACE]

The smoke produced by burnt food is an irritant. The smoke produced by internal combustion engines is also an irritant. Why isn't anyone concerned with that?

People are concerned with that but as this thread was posted in regards to a 'Smoking ban urged for Peel condos and apartments', we will just have to address one source at a time.

 

[khris]

I am watching this with great interest, as we have problems in our condo where second hand smoke seeps from neighbouring units and it can be nearly intolerable. It comes in through the AC/heat ventilation, from holes in walls around pipes and wiring, etc. I've spray-foamed every crack in our place. We've gone through two air purifiers (they help a bit but not much, and lose effectiveness after 6 months or so) and complained to the condo board, who sympathize but say their hands are tied. There's not much else I can do. Even when I open the window during nice weather the nearby smoking unit apparently does the same, because smoke drifts in through the window, too.

The smell is strong. It burns my eyes. My wife has serious allergies to almost everything under the sun including dust, and the smoke aggravates them. We spend $300 several times a year for allergy shots. We removed all broadloom, we sealed our mattress in an expensive anti-mite/allergen cover, we don't don't have a cat even though we both would like to, all because of her allergies. Now these sacrifices are being undone by a selfish neighbour.

This is our HOME. We work hard to pay a mortgage, and we have invested tens of thousands of dollars in renovations into it. But in the blink of an eye a single neighbour can move in nearby and degrade our quality of life drastically. Walking down the hall, I know that there are precisely two smokers on out entire floor of about 24 units. How do I know? The smell outside the doors. A non-smoker can pick that up easily.

How many other units do these few smokers infiltrate with the smell? Why should the rights of a tiny minority of residents overpower those of the vast majority of non-smoking units? Why is it up to me to try to spend time and money trying to seal my unit, rather than the responsibility of smokers to seal theirs? Why am I protected by law from cigarette smoke when I'm in a public place or at work, but not in my own home?

The same old tired arguments of smokers with their "totalitarianism" and "rights" complaints infuriate me. This is not a minor inconvenience, like the odours of a neighbour cooking, which are short-term and harmless. Smoking is a known carcinogen, and exposures to small amounts over long periods of time is shown to cause cancer. All I ask is to be healthy and comfortable in my own home. Now, I'm pretty sure that is my right.

If your wife is so allergic, why are you living in a building where things like this can happen and be out of your control?
If I had so many allergies, I would live in a house that is detached from everyone else, far away from anyone else where their smells or what not would not have any effect on me. The world is not to blame for someone having allergies, and the person with allergies just has to grin and bear it or do what they can to avoid triggers.

 

[PukeGreen]

your wife is so allergic, why are you living in a building where things like this can happen and be out of your control?
If I had so many allergies, I would live in a house that is detached from everyone else, far away from anyone else where their smells or what not would not have any effect on me. The world is not to blame for someone having allergies, and the person with allergies just has to grin and bear it or do what they can to avoid triggers.

Seriously? I should change my entire way of life so some guy I don't know can smoke? I hear detached homes in this city are a dime a dozen, I'll get right on that. I guess people who can only afford condos or rental apartments deserve to choke, huh.

On another note, I do not believe that comparisons of tobacco smoke to cooking smells are valid. Cooking smells, while possibly unpleasant, are short-lived (nobody cooks the same thing every day) and do not pose any known health risk. To my knowledge stinky fish is not a carcinogen or an allergic trigger.

Additionally, cooking is a normal activity we all need to do in order to survive. Smoking is not. I am willing to accept the occasional cooking odour as a simple side-effect of living in society; I'm sure my cooking odours occasionally bother others, too. Similarly, driving is also not an option for most people. I don't take much offense to the exhaust fumes caused by someone driving to work or dropping their kids off at daycare because that's the way our society is structured at this point. Smoking cigarettes, on the other hand, is not something anyone needs to do to survive: it's an optional activity that a small minority of people choose to do voluntarily. I see no reason why others should sacrifice their health or quality of life so someone can get a little hit of nicotine.

Also, I don't believe that comparisons to alcohol are accurate. If I have a glass of wine or beer with dinner that's nobody's business. So long as I do so responsibly nobody will be any the wiser, nor can they claim to be adversely affected. The same cannot be said for someone lighting up a cigarette in their condo or in a restaurant, because the mere act of smoking even one cigarette will likely bother others. Yes, if one drinks too much alcohol and drives, or staggers through the streets assaulting people, that's a different story; but we have laws already against drinking and driving and assault, so another law against simple responsible drinking is not required.

The fact is, I'm not opposed to tobacco as a legal product. I even support the legalization of marijuana, and the treatment of harder drug addictions like heroin as a medical problem rather than a criminal act. However, all these things must be consumed in a location and in a manner that does not bother others. In my opinion, a condo or an apartment building -- anywhere with shared walls and ventilation -- is not a suitable place for this. I'm somewhat surprised that this simple observation is so offensive to many.

 

[doady]

The smoke produced by burnt food is an irritant. The smoke produced by internal combustion engines is also an irritant. Why isn't anyone concerned with that?

If no one is concerned then why do stoves have intake fans above them? Why have cars become cleaner over the years?

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

The fact is, I'm not opposed to tobacco as a legal product. I even support the legalization of marijuana, and the treatment of harder drug addictions like heroin as a medical problem rather than a criminal act. However, all these things must be consumed in a location and in a manner that does not bother others. In my opinion, a condo or an apartment building -- anywhere with shared walls and ventilation -- is not a suitable place for this. I'm somewhat surprised that this simple observation is so offensive to many.

Oh I'd love to talk about the legalization of marijuana (I don't smoke the stuff but it should be legal) and treatment of heroin addicts like what is being tried in England right now... but that would be off-topic.
If your in a condo built in the past 15 or 20 years you most likely have direct ventilation to the outside. Even if you did have shared ventilation you should not be getting cooking odors, cigarette smoke or anything else waffling through the vents and if you are there is something wrong.
I myself completely believe that you have the right to clean air in your home but if your experiencing these problems I can assure you that there are solutions to your problem, without having to move.

 

[Admiral Beez]

In the case of smells from cooking; although I wish that my neighbour would not cook roadkill with a pound of garlic on a Friday night, the effects, as unpleasant as they are, do not pose a health risk to myself.

No, but it does negatively impact the reasonable enjoyment of your home. I've visited friends in some apartment buildings where the stench of peoples' cooking was incredible.

 

[ACE]

No, but it does negatively impact the reasonable enjoyment of your home.

Correct.
But that snippet of my post was just in reference to someone's comment on food smells and not on smoking. I'm sure someone could start a thread about the worst food smells ever experienced in an apartment/condo building.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I'm sure someone could start a thread about the worst food smells ever experienced in an apartment/condo building.

As a London, UK born Canuck who travels to England every few years, I always love a good curry, and you'll find me chowing down at Rashn'aa in Cabbagetown, where the beef and fish curries are fantastic (see http://www.rashnaa.com/). But when an entire building is fouled by the stuff, that certainly would drive me away from my home before any cigarette smoke (and I'm a avid non-smoker).

 

[AGTO]

I do not believe that comparisons of tobacco smoke to cooking smells are valid.

You're entitled to your opinion, as valid or invalid as it may be.

If no one is concerned then why do stoves have intake fans above them? Why have cars become cleaner over the years?

Are you serious? Where do you think the air draw in by the fan goes? Do you really think cars don't spew carcinogens any more?