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spider

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Snow happens, the inconvenience it visits on people is managed in a variety of ways depending on many factors not the least of which in Toronto is the streetscape.

The streetscape varies widely in Toronto from wide streets with boulevards between the road and the sidewalk (if there is one) and no parked cars in the suburbs to narrow streets with adjacent sidewalks and legally parked cars. Back lanes, common downtown, provide another problem in that they are only 10’ wide and often are designed with right angle intersections that are not navigable by large vehicles.

In order to discuss the different methods of snow management we have to agree on a few basics such as the simple fact that snow plows do not remove snow from your street they merely relocate it from the road and sidewalk to a less troublesome area within the road allowance.

Actual snow removal is a separate operation usually reserved to arterial roads and bus stops that involves loaders and trucks days after the plows are gone.

Discontinuing â€windrow clearance service†currently enjoyed by many suburban citizens has been suggested as a money saver by the City, Having watched snow plow operators leave my driveway clear of snow for decades with no more effort than pushing a button I have to wonder if anyone down at City hall understands the process.

For those who have never seen these plows in action visualise a plow running down the street plowing snow from the road to the curb, when the operator comes to a driveway he drops a barrier board from a vertical position beside the cab to a position on the road surface parallel to the curb. The board prevents the snow coming off the plow blade from being deposited at the curb for the width of the driveway. At the end of the driveway the blade is raised and the snow is once more dumped at the curb.

The plow doesn’t slow down during this operation, no extra people or machinery are required, none, nada, bupkis. where is the $3.7 million to be cut?

This process should be referred to as windrow prevention, not windrow removal.

If a savings is sought they may take a look at sidewalk plowing protocals. My sidewalk is plowed, often in the night, when there is barely enough snow on the ground to show the plow tire tracks.
 
Agreed forget about "windrow clearance". Let's get rid of sidewalk clearance? Why do the spoiled elite in the suburbs get their sidewalks cleared for free. Yet those of us who are closer to downtown, and typically pay more $ in tax have to shovel our own sidewalks.

Yet the sidewalks we shovel downtown are typically harder to shovel (because they are so heavily travelled, that it's difficult to get the snow/ice off if you don't get out there before dawn in the winter). Also the snow plows for the road dump much of the snow onto the sidwalks (as there is typically no grass between the road and the sidewalk).
 
The stupidest thing about all of this is that the city staff who actually work in snow removal (ie. my father) consider windrow clearance to be a totally different operation than what has been described by Ford. Windrow clearance is when city staff return to an already cleared street to clear the snow banks that have accumulated along the curbside of the road. It is not necessarily just at the ends of driveways, and it happens on all types of roads - from suburban arterials to downtown side-streets. This can be done either by pulling the snow, casting the snow, or hauling the snow away. Sometimes they even use those big melting trucks. This is a separate operation from clearing streets of snow, and definitely costs more money.

Ever since this cut was first announced, I've wondered if windrow clearance was framed in a way to make it sound more gravy-like in order to create more public acceptance for cutting it.
 
NO, the operation you are describing is snow removal on all City streets not windrow clearance on suburban residential streets. This is precisely the misunderstanding that prompted me to start this thread.
 
Except the snow isn't always removed. Sometimes it is pulled or casted, which is not the same as snow removal. The latter requires more labour, equipment, and fundamentally - more money.

My understanding was that windrow clearance was the catch all term for a bunch of different operations that involve the clearance of snowbanks.

That being said, whether I am right or not is immaterial, I agree with you that stopping the operation that you described in your original post would likely save only a marginal amount of money, and not the millions suggested by Ford and his loyal councillors. Although, you never know, I guess. In York Region, I've seen ploughs go by and leave all the windrows in front of driveways in place, and then come back and get them on another pass. Would they have bothered to come for another pass if windrow clearance was cut? I'm not sure, but that could account for the extra money.
 
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My understanding was that windrow clearance was the catch all term for a bunch of different operations that involve the clearance of snowbanks.
Your understanding, all too common, is not correct. It is this misunderstanding that I am trying to straighten out, the Toronto budget item referring to windrow clearance does not include digging out bus stops and major intersections. These operations will always be with us as they should be, can you imagine proposing to discontinue them?

Except the snow isn't always removed. Sometimes it is pulled or casted, which is not the same as snow removal. The latter requires more labour, equipment, and fundamentally - more money.

Semantics, what is pulled or casted?

That being said, whether I am right or not is immaterial.

No, it couldn't be more material.
Whatever other municipalities do with their snow is immaterial, we are discussing Toronto.
 
It is not semantics at all, and I am not talking about digging out bus stops and major intersections. I am talking about cutting and clearing of snowbanks at the curbsides of residential streets.

And no I don't think we should be cutting those operations, but thanks for putting words in my mouth.

Pulling, Casting, and Removal are all different operations and require different investments of time and money. Snow that is pulled is literally pulled over the street and allowed to be melted by vehicles (it is generally spread over a large area so that it is not thick). Snow that is casted is picked up with loaders and stockpiled somewhere nearby. Snow that is removed is picked up with loaders and hauled away in trucks (sometimes it is melted, which is obviously a different cost). We use similar terms when excavating & grading on construction sites.

I think you are misunderstanding me, I am trying to come up with a logical reason why "windrow clearance" could possibly cost more. Looking at other municipalities and what they do, is pertinent to the discussion, because snow removal operations are fairly similar. It's certainly possible that it takes a another pass of the plough to actually accomplish the clearance, although I do not know that for certain. But if it did, this would account for the extra dollars. I can see this happening if the snowfall was heavy, and the ploughs went by for a primary pass, and then came back later for the finishing pass. But in the case of a light snowfall, I think that it would occur more like in your original post.
 
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We had a half inch or so of snow this week here in Toronto and guess what, the sidewalk plows were deployed in my neighbourhood to sand and salt the sidewalks. What a waste!
 
We had a half inch or so of snow this week here in Toronto and guess what, the sidewalk plows were deployed in my neighbourhood to sand and salt the sidewalks. What a waste!

Could be worse! :p

[video=youtube;SWzbEn-aXMQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWzbEn-aXMQ[/video]
 
^ lol I think the army should be called in for backup


[video=youtube;LUXoFLouhU8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUXoFLouhU8[/video]
 

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