[ShonTron]

Alright, I've looked into this, and didn't see racist intent. However, caution is advised when describing stereotypes, even in a sarcastic manner, particuarly as they may be some mistaken perceptions.

Back on topic (if there is one).

 

[Eug]

Hmm.. not sure why you refer to that statement as a problem?

If ANYBODY wants to pay for ANYTHING they believe is worth their money, the person selling makes a "profit".. a lot of people also benefit from such a transaction, such as renovation retailers and designers, and real rstate agents. I believe it's totally pretentious to TARGET those who pay for what they want with their own money, this is why I respond to the post in the first place.. Afterall, you would prefer the price of your CURRENT house/condo to go up too... right? and if someone is willing to pay you a ridiculous amount of money for it, to sell or not to sell is your decision. That's how any civilized society works, supply and demand.

It's a problem because speculators are the first to bolt at any sign of trouble. Property prices that are pushed upwards because of heavy speculation fall the hardest when times are tough. Those investing in Murano simply because they think it will generate a good return might be quite disappointed.

 

[slowtyper]

Hi All,

I am new here and very new to real estate. I have read this thread with interest and am enjoying all the little anecdotes that pop up. I'm currently looking to purchase my first home, a condo, however I do not want to live in downtown Toronto. I am currently considering North York (yonge/sheppard, yonge/north york center, yonge/finch) but there was not much discussion about those condos in this thread. What are your thoughts on recent prices in the area? Or is there a better forum more suited to that area I should be looking at?

Thanks

EDIT: BTW I was browsing realtor.ca and used the form email to inquire about some properties. One agent contacted me who said he could act as a buying agent for me. I asked him to just send me some information to browse and I would get back to him. This was the email he sent me

The below listings are the properties( 1+1/2 under $280,000) available on the market.

Current market has some characters that you need to know.
1. This is not the buyer's market anymore. It is seller's market.
There are many buyers looking for condominium with 1+1 under $300k.
But not many good properties.
2. Good properties receive seveal offers on the first day of listing.
So, you need to be ready to put an offer ASAP if you like the property
Some preparations include mortgage, closing date, downpayment and so
on.
3. There are may multiple offer situations. you need to outstand among your competitors.

I can get you competitive offer, which can lead you to get the deal.
I get you cash back after deal.
I know what seller wants other than money so you can get the deal.

Call me at XXXXXXXXXXXX for your deal.

Listed below is a link to properties for sale that may be of interest to you. Click on the link to view the properties. This link will be active for a two-week period.

Now, to me this seems like some extreme scare tactics I guess to weed out people that will waste his time or perhaps make a quick sale. Is this correct or do you believe there is some truth to it?

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Hi All,

I am new here and very new to real estate. I have read this thread with interest and am enjoying all the little anecdotes that pop up. I'm currently looking to purchase my first home, a condo, however I do not want to live in downtown Toronto. I am currently considering North York (yonge/sheppard, yonge/north york center, yonge/finch) but there was not much discussion about those condos in this thread. What are your thoughts on recent prices in the area? Or is there a better forum more suited to that area I should be looking at?

Thanks

EDIT: BTW I was browsing realtor.ca and used the form email to inquire about some properties. One agent contacted me who said he could act as a buying agent for me. I asked him to just send me some information to browse and I would get back to him. This was the email he sent me



Now, to me this seems like some extreme scare tactics I guess to weed out people that will waste his time or perhaps make a quick sale. Is this correct or do you believe there is some truth to it?

If this is a straight copy and paste from his email as it seems to be. Then the fact that he didn't bother with a simple spelling or grammer check tells me everything I need to know about the type of person that'd I'd be dealing with. These are clearly scare tactics designed to get you to make a quick uninformed decision. Keep in mind you never solicited him for his services, he responded to a post you made. If he felt you were a waste of his time then why would he respond to your post?

 

[slowtyper]

Well to me, the grammar/spelling mistakes are forgivable. English is not his first language and I understand that. Yes its not very professional, however I deal with quite a few people who do not have perfect English so I am quite used to it and am probably more tolerant about it than most.

More concerned to me was the "rushed" message he was trying to get across. If it really is true, then that is one thing, but as a first time buyer I want an agent who would be pretty patient with me showing/explaining things to me.

 

[cdr108]

Well to me, the grammar/spelling mistakes are forgivable. English is not his first language and I understand that. Yes its not very professional, however I deal with quite a few people who do not have perfect English so I am quite used to it and am probably more tolerant about it than most.

More concerned to me was the "rushed" message he was trying to get across. If it really is true, then that is one thing, but as a first time buyer I want an agent who would be pretty patient with me showing/explaining things to me.

it's a scare tactic ... time is on your side.

it's not a seller's market, more a balanced market at most ... some if it is attributed to the lack of good product at reasonable prices.

what i still see are ppl asking high prices from 2007, so they sit for their mandate, then re-listed under new ID# as if new.

your only concern maybe interest rates as long term rates have risen abit in the past month; however, prices will likely adjust down to reflect that.
if you're going to go variable, then that's slightly different as the BOC has committed to hold prime @ 0.25 until 2009 Q2.

keep in mind, your bank's rate will vary, so they could change from what some had of 'bank prime - 1.0' to what seem to be the norm of 'bank prime + 0.7'.

btw ... do you research.
from what i've seen you can get stuff from $350 PSF with parking + locker incl in buildings completed within past 10 years.

 

[Yossi Kaplan MBA]

Prices Up Now - Perhaps Down Later ???

Re-sale and new devs alike prices are currently inching up. The "hot" buildings have seen significant gains, while older buildings (7+yrs) don't appreciate that much, especially if the condo fees are relatively higher, and seem even higher to most buyers when hydro is included.

By "hot" bldgs I mean Murano, MLS, Freed and other near-completion buildings. Most local buyers prefer to see the units in person, even if it means paying more for them. Int'l investors simply buy from plans, and

If you're looking to find stuff at 350PSF, you're looking at an older building and will pay the price via higher condo fees.

If you're looking at C01, C08, your range is 400-600PSF with premium units (high floors, water views) can go up to 700PSF. Yorkville is 1000+.

So when or why would prices go down? if we see massive inflation that will render the value of your earned salary less and less, as well high interest rates that will put pressure down on prices.

Otherwise there are very little new units coming online and those are quickly purchased by end users or investors. Those who hesitate will end up paying more for the same, especially new buyers or bargain hunters which refused to buy in a new buildings a year ago at 400PSF now will have to come up with 500-600 for the exact same property, won't be able to pick the unit they want and wil be stuck with finishes and upgrades that were picked for them by someone else - hope they had good design sense.

Rents are also up by 5-10%.

What does it all mean? it means that investors can still pick 1 1+den with parking and locker for 270,000 and get rents at 1450/mo. which provides, with the right financing structure, positive or neutral cashflow and significant appreciation.

As prices keep increasing - it's all about supply and demand and currently demand exceeds supply - those renters who did not buy will find it much tougher to purchase as the value of their saving for downpayments will erode, and they will end up buying a smaller unit, lower floors, away from the core or keep renting.


Quick price scan:

Standard downtown C08 400-600
Luxury downtown 500-700
Core, Yorkville 700-2000


Regards,

 

[Observer Walt]

Slowtyper, I'll agree that the message you received seems to have some characteristics of someone pressuring you. Be aware of this.

Your first steps should be to ascertain what is feasible for you from a financial point of view. I am not sure why a purchaser would go into the current market without a pre-arranged mortgage. Start at your own bank, but shop by going to at least one other bank and / or a mortgage broker. Ask the bank if a deal on the mortgage rate could be cut, if you have other business to give them (eg., RSP deposit). Banks are less willing to negotiate now than they were two or three years ago, but there is still some wiggle room.

As already mentioned, older buildings are cheaper per square foot than new buildings, if other factors are more or less equal. But compare the monthly condo fees, and allow for utilities (included in some condo fees, not in others).

Keep in mind that a building older than about 15 years is approaching the point that more significant maintenance / repairs will be needed. Check the building's reserve fund (money set aside for major future expenses). If the reserve fund is skimpy, or worse yet, there has been a history of "special assessments", be very cautious.

In summary, do some homework. Best wishes.

 

[daveto]

Yossi, I think you'll be eating your words in six months. Bookmark my post, and if I'm wrong I'll eat humble pie.

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

Yossi,

deflation is more a concern than inflation at this point. We have a huge wealth destruction effect due to declines in the value of financial assets and real estate (at least outside of Canada), and credit continues to be taken out of the global economy due to deleveraging of financial institutions. Unemployment is rising every month, and consumers - responsible for 70% of the economy - are cutting back pretty much everywhere they can. All of these events are deflationary.

Even if we had inflationary pressures due to government monetary stimulus, wages are still constrained by high unemployment and downward pressure from outsourcing and global competition. The worst case scenario is that energy prices continue to increase but wages remain stagnant or fall, so people will need to spend more on necessities and have less left over for other expenses (like big mortgage payments). As you can guess this won't be good for housing prices.

Also you are missing the key point that since most people make real estate purchases with borrowed money, they make purchasing decisions based on the payment rather than the principal. Rates are at or near historical lows, and if they rise even by a few percentage points there will be a significant decline in affordibility, and by extension real estate price levels.

I'd also like to point out that the "buy now because inflation will come later" argument is nonsensical. If you buy now and inflation reaches high levels, interest rates will also rise accordingly. This will push prices down because current principal levels will be unaffordable to new buyers, so when you try to renew your mortgage you will A) owe more than your home is worth, and B) faced with a massive jump in financing costs due to higher rates.

 

[mybrainsyourmoney]

Re-sale and new devs alike prices are currently inching up. The "hot" buildings have seen significant gains, while older buildings (7+yrs) don't appreciate that much, especially if the condo fees are relatively higher, and seem even higher to most buyers when hydro is included.

By "hot" bldgs I mean Murano, MLS, Freed and other near-completion buildings. Most local buyers prefer to see the units in person, even if it means paying more for them. Int'l investors simply buy from plans, and

If you're looking to find stuff at 350PSF, you're looking at an older building and will pay the price via higher condo fees.

If you're looking at C01, C08, your range is 400-600PSF with premium units (high floors, water views) can go up to 700PSF. Yorkville is 1000+.

So when or why would prices go down? if we see massive inflation that will render the value of your earned salary less and less, as well high interest rates that will put pressure down on prices.

Otherwise there are very little new units coming online and those are quickly purchased by end users or investors. Those who hesitate will end up paying more for the same, especially new buyers or bargain hunters which refused to buy in a new buildings a year ago at 400PSF now will have to come up with 500-600 for the exact same property, won't be able to pick the unit they want and wil be stuck with finishes and upgrades that were picked for them by someone else - hope they had good design sense.

Rents are also up by 5-10%.

What does it all mean? it means that investors can still pick 1 1+den with parking and locker for 270,000 and get rents at 1450/mo. which provides, with the right financing structure, positive or neutral cashflow and significant appreciation.

As prices keep increasing - it's all about supply and demand and currently demand exceeds supply - those renters who did not buy will find it much tougher to purchase as the value of their saving for downpayments will erode, and they will end up buying a smaller unit, lower floors, away from the core or keep renting.


Quick price scan:

Standard downtown C08 400-600
Luxury downtown 500-700
Core, Yorkville 700-2000


Regards,

Wow, thanks for the infomercial Yossi.

I thought this forum was about critical thought, not cheerleading.

I think you are posting some misleading information too. My sources tell me that the bottom has completely fallen out of the high end projects and nothing is going for anywhere near 1000 per square foot. Speculator and investor buyers who have $5000 for a down payment on a building 3 years away don't count as valid sales to me. They are just all pulling Madoff scams on each other and don't represent real demand. Show me an end user who wants a unit at the Four Seasons for $1,200 per square foot. Or Trump for $1,000. They don't exist. Call me cynical.

As an agent if you have evidence to the contrary I would love to see it but I hear the upper end of the market is totally gone.

 

[Yossi Kaplan MBA]

inflation vs. prices

Yossi,


I'd also like to point out that the "buy now because inflation will come later" argument is nonsensical. If you buy now and inflation reaches high levels, interest rates will also rise accordingly. This will push prices down because current principal levels will be unaffordable to new buyers, so when you try to renew your mortgage you will A) owe more than your home is worth, and B) faced with a massive jump in financing costs due to higher rates.

yes guy! that's why ppl are locking fixed now.


below from the trenches:

about half of my buyers are cash buyers converting entire portfolios into r.e. holdings b/c concerns of inflation i.e. devaluation of their wealth.

the other half of my buyers are first timers, they are not having a great time right now b/c they are waiting on magical price drops but the rich int'l buyers are grabbing all the good units left in murano, maple leaf and cityplace, either as assignments or re-sale, putting tenants in them (1450/mo. + hydro for 560 sq. ft. at montage, parking incl.) and collecting rents.

i was selling murano assignments at 400psf a year ago... if you could find one for 500psf now, you're lucky. same for freed's.

the only way i see prices coming down is massive inflation and the markets taking a 10-15 point hit... understand there's so much money coming into this city and it's gobbling up like the coockie monster, it needs no mortgages b/c it's all or mostly cash deals and it makes first timers into a blip on the economic force maps.


thx.

 

[Yossi Kaplan MBA]

Wow, thanks for the infomercial Yossi.

As an agent if you have evidence to the contrary I would love to see it but I hear the upper end of the market is totally gone.

remember i deal with many int'l clients and they deem canadian dollar and r.e. as cheap... they are 50-100% cash buyers.

for proof, just call around the sales centers to get current prices and what they are asking for d.p. it's 15-25%.

thx

 

[northstar]

....

the other half of my buyers are first timers, they are not having a great time right now b/c they are waiting on magical price drops but the rich int'l buyers are grabbing all the good units left in murano, maple leaf and cityplace, either as assignments or re-sale, putting tenants in them (1450/mo. + hydro for 560 sq. ft. at montage, parking incl.) and collecting rents.

...

Interesting point you raise about "waiting on magical price drops".
I'm not a real estate agent, but nevertheless, I'm interested in real estate.
In relation to real estate purchases, I often hear the comment "I'm waiting for prices to drop"...
There seems to be this expectation that prices will drop off a cliff, similar to the US experience.

Prices dropped off a cliff in the US partly because of excessive numbers of homes being put on the market due to foreclosures.
These homes were no longer being sold by the owners, but rather by the banks.
Banks look to sell as quickly as possible at whatever price they can get, because they are not in the business of property management.

I doubt that Canada will experience a similar wave of foreclosures. Most homes here are not in foreclosure. While foreclosures will inevitably increase as the recession deepens, no economist is predicting Canadian foreclosure rates similar to those in the US over the past few years.
If people hang their hopes on waiting for magical 40% price drops like those experienced in California, then they most likely lose out in the end.

Speculation on price drops is not much different from speculation on price gains.

 

[daveto]

Residential real estate has a 14-18 year price cycle. That's the way it has been for the last century, and in all markets. We've had the upswing, and now we have the downswing. From what I see, the only ones who deny this are those who make their living from selling real estate.