[TravellingChris]

Uniqlo is a 1-2 max store it seems and so I don't think we will see anything else from them.

It's crazy (and telling) that neither Simons nor Uniqlo want a more central location ie. Whyte or ECC... alas.

Simons committed to Londonderry before the demise of Sears Canada made Kingsway and Southgate available--both of which are far superior malls with higher sales per square foot (and LRT access). However, as I understand it there's an additional wrinkle: a clause in Simons' lease at WEM apparently prevents them from opening a store within a certain radius of the mall. Londonderry was outside that radius.

I was concerned for the future of Simons' store in Londonderry before the announcement that Hudson's Bay is remaining in the mall (albeit in a reduced and altered capacity). Peter Simons has stated in the past that the chain prefers to co-locate in malls with other mid-to-upscale anchors in order to be part of a "fashion destination." In the absence of HBC, Londonderry would be at risk of going downscale fast. If HBC's complete exit led to a significant loss of traffic at Londonderry I could have envisioned Simons leaving as well.

 

[dunno]

Simons committed to Londonderry before the demise of Sears Canada made Kingsway and Southgate available--both of which are far superior malls with higher sales per square foot (and LRT access). However, as I understand it there's an additional wrinkle: a clause in Simons' lease at WEM apparently prevents them from opening a store within a certain radius of the mall. Londonderry was outside that radius.

I was concerned for the future of Simons' store in Londonderry before the announcement that Hudson's Bay is remaining in the mall (albeit in a reduced and altered capacity). Peter Simons has stated in the past that the chain prefers to co-locate in malls with other mid-to-upscale anchors in order to be part of a "fashion destination." In the absence of HBC, Londonderry would be at risk of going downscale fast. If HBC's complete exit led to a significant loss of traffic at Londonderry I could have envisioned Simons leaving as well.

Londonderry always seemed like a bit of a risk for Simons, as the mall was really not “quite there” compared to their other locations. I have a feeling Simons is partly why H&M wound up there a couple years later. While the mall has really tried in ways that, say, City Centre, did not, it’s just not really there in terms of being a destination. It’s more of a decent local community hub, like MWTC, which is fine, but not really the traffic Simons would likely prefer. It’s not like there isn’t demand for stronger destination retail in that part of the city, either — it just all wound up at Manning Town Centre. Imagine Londonderry with a Cineplex, Old Navy, Browns Social House, plus retaining SportChek (elsewhere in the mall obviously).

I do wonder how long the clause with WEM is in effect. I could see them moving to space, if available, at Southgate or Kingsway, whenever that happens. Sadly with the demise of Sears and Target, Simons lost a big window of opportunity into these malls that likely won’t show up for a while again. Also seems silly for WEM to have required that, considering the many other stores that operate at both WEM and Southgate and it doesn’t make tenants at the mall unable to pay the bills.

 

[Gronk!]

On the contrary, @dunno, I consider Londonderry to be a major destination for me personally, especially now with ECC being a lost cause these days. In fact, Simons is the main reason why I go to Londonderry, and while I'm there I can shop and eat at the other stores while avoiding HBC like the plague. Comparing Londonderry with MWTC is bordering on ludicrous considering that it's the fourth busiest mall after WEM, Southgate and Kingsway.

 

[David A]

On the contrary, @dunno, I consider Londonderry to be a major destination for me personally, especially now with ECC being a lost cause these days. In fact, Simons is the main reason why I go to Londonderry, and while I'm there I can shop and eat at the other stores while avoiding HBC like the plague. Comparing Londonderry with MWTC is bordering on ludicrous considering that it's the fourth busiest mall after WEM, Southgate and Kingsway.

For me, it is probably about the same to travel to WEM or Londonderry, but I much prefer Londonderry. It is easier to get around, in and out and it is not such a zoo. So I have gone to Simons a number of times there.

I get that having the Bay does draw more people in, so that benefits Simons too. Sometimes I have gone to both when I am there.

Its too bad Simons could not have a location in Southgate. It is closer for me than Londonderry, so I might go there. Its not great, but I understand why WEM has the restriction.

 

[dunno]

On the contrary, @dunno, I consider Londonderry to be a major destination for me personally, especially now with ECC being a lost cause these days. In fact, Simons is the main reason why I go to Londonderry, and while I'm there I can shop and eat at the other stores while avoiding HBC like the plague. Comparing Londonderry with MWTC is bordering on ludicrous considering that it's the fourth busiest mall after WEM, Southgate and Kingsway.

You may consider Londonderrry as such, but few from north of the Yellowhead and west of97th are going there, except for, as you correctly mention, Simons. I know a lot of people go specifically for that Simons as opposed to WEM, but beyond that, it really doesn‘t draw people. And even those folks aren’t that large considering how much busier the WEM location is. If you’re going to the mall for one store that you don’t need to shuffle through the corridors for, are you really going to the mall or are you going to a store? Kingsway is, by and large, the mall for the northside. Londonderry is local errands and Simons.

Londonderry is the 4th busiest because there are 3 proper regional malls in Edmonton that are thriving and full of the usual destination retailiers. Londonderry just happens to be the next busiest after that drop-off. For what it’s worth, MWTC is surprisingly busy too and I’d put it in a similar category. Maybe one’s a bit busier than the other, but neither are really Southgate or WEM.

 

[TravellingChris]

Londonderry always seemed like a bit of a risk for Simons, as the mall was really not “quite there” compared to their other locations. I have a feeling Simons is partly why H&M wound up there a couple years later. While the mall has really tried in ways that, say, City Centre, did not, it’s just not really there in terms of being a destination. It’s more of a decent local community hub, like MWTC, which is fine, but not really the traffic Simons would likely prefer. It’s not like there isn’t demand for stronger destination retail in that part of the city, either — it just all wound up at Manning Town Centre. Imagine Londonderry with a Cineplex, Old Navy, Browns Social House, plus retaining SportChek (elsewhere in the mall obviously).

I do wonder how long the clause with WEM is in effect. I could see them moving to space, if available, at Southgate or Kingsway, whenever that happens. Sadly with the demise of Sears and Target, Simons lost a big window of opportunity into these malls that likely won’t show up for a while again. Also seems silly for WEM to have required that, considering the many other stores that operate at both WEM and Southgate and it doesn’t make tenants at the mall unable to pay the bills.

I always assumed that the reason Simons went into Londonderry was because 20 Vic probably gave them a fantastic deal on the rent and possibly a tenant incentive payment. Let's face it, there were few other potential tenants at the time who would have been interested in that space--Sears was on its deathbed and Target was already gone. Having previously split the space between Sport Chek and Army & Navy, 20 Vic clearly wanted a marquee tenant that would help create a "fashion destination" and thus enable the landlord to attract other fashion retailers. As opposed to chopping the space up further and splitting it among downscale retailers like Dollarama (a road Southcentre is unfortunately following with its former Sears/Eatons space).

AFAIK the issue with WEM requiring the radius clause was due to the fact that WEM paid for the lion's share (or all) of the renovations to the space prior to Simons opening on the second floor of Phase Three.

 

[dunno]

I always assumed that the reason Simons went into Londonderry was because 20 Vic probably gave them a fantastic deal on the rent and possibly a tenant incentive payment. Let's face it, there were few other potential tenants at the time who would have been interested in that space--Sears was on its deathbed and Target was already gone. Having previously split the space between Sport Chek and Army & Navy, 20 Vic clearly wanted a marquee tenant that would help create a "fashion destination" and thus enable the landlord to attract other fashion retailers. As opposed to chopping the space up further and splitting it among downscale retailers like Dollarama (a road Southcentre is unfortunately following with its former Sears/Eatons space).

AFAIK the issue with WEM requiring the radius clause was due to the fact that WEM paid for the lion's share (or all) of the renovations to the space prior to Simons opening on the second floor of Phase Three.

Thanks for these insights! Would‘ve been funny if they did a full-circle and had Walmart return to the Sportchek/A&N space not unlike how Kingsway got Walmart eventually. However it probably would’ve been too close to their Supercentre at Clareview. Ultimately they kinda hit the jackpot with Simons.

It’s funny you mention Southcentre because that is what I could envision Londonderry as, in a way. Southcentre is a fairly thriving mall in an era where thriving malls tend to have a large radius around them where they’re the only thriving mall. But Chinook is just up the road and an even bigger draw. Both exist as thriving malls for South Calgary and although the edge is clearly to Chinook, I’m surprised by Southcentre’s ability to hold onto its own string of desirable tenants (including many who aren’t at Chinook). There’s the potential for something similar for Northside Edmonton with Kingsway and Londonderry. Imagine if Londonderry got a Decathlon too (maybe the vacated HBC space?), Uniqlo, and idk… Structube? And then maybe it also snagged some mall staples that are at Kingsway like American Eagle, RW&Co, Sephora, Bath & Body, Aritzia, etc. It wouldn’t exceed the top 3, but it would enjoy a comfortable place and be more of a broader destination like what they were starting to do with Simons. I do think that helped lure H&M and so there’s a start, but the renos were already 7 years ago, and this needs to move along more.

 

[edm13]

I heard simons has a lease where they pay a percentage of their sales at Londonderry. Anyone else every hear that? Also heard this was the case for the Bay. Whenever I go there, it always seems decently busy.

 

[archited]

It is standard fare for Mall Owners to have leases whereby there is a base rent per square foot (metre) plus a percentage of net sales.

 

[IanO]

Bingo... and a much more practical way to establish rents for smaller retailers.

 

[Edmcowboy11]

It is standard fare for Mall Owners to have leases whereby there is a base rent per square foot (metre) plus a percentage of net sales.

Exactly, that is what I had to do when in Bonnie Doon. That is why though many businesses will avoid going into shopping malls. I never liked this idea of double dipping. Can you imagine that being done in the residential world. Pay your monthly rent, then also pay a percentage of your income on top of the rent.

 

[Westendyeg]

BP issued for Alo Yoga at Southgate.

 

[quit]

I will lock this thread as it was about the renovations to the mall, not ongoing real estate updates in the mall. Those conversations can occur in the Southgate mall thread in the Real Estate sub-forum. Will move posts over there as well.