[Admiral Beez]

The one thing all these incidents have in common is that people entered the road space and got hit by a vehicle on the road. No deaths have occurred this month AFAIK where vehicles have yet jumped the sidewalk or crashed into a crowded bus shelter, etc. So, the reason these people are getting killed is that they entered the road space - had they stayed off the road, they would still be alive today.

As a motorcyclist I take entering the road space as a very serious and dangerous matter, where anyone operating a vehicle who doesn't see you or doesn't care can kill you at any moment - and I use the same thinking when I enter the road space as a pedestrian. I'm not saying that pedestrians have no right to enter the road space at marked crossings, but that right is no guarantee of safety, and to assume so is folly.

 

[Confused]

There Seems to Be A Problem Here

It was not that long ago that there was zero tolerance for car drivers hitting pedestrians. The motorist was always at fault. Now it seems as is the case in many aspects of our society that we blame the victim. They were too aggressive walking, they were listening to their MP3 player, they were on their cell phone. And of course the drivers were not distracted, the drivers do not display a casual attitude towards their vehicles versus pedestrians, the drivers don't become angry because the lowly pedestrian has cost them 15 seconds in their rush to Starbucks, the drivers are not (still) on their cell phones, changing a CD, sipping a cup of coffee or munching on a donut or a sandwich. As one of the contributors here mentioned, when it becomes a clash between a car and a pedestrian, the pedestrian will always lose. The car driver is inconvenienced, the pedestrian is dead.

Remember the one line from Spiderman that with great power comes great responsibility. In my mind, that is the issue. Not MP3 players, running into the street, crossing against the lights. These are not new stupid things that pedestrians do. We have not invented these problems. It has been going on for years. We must hold drivers responsible because with the right to drive a car on our roads comes great responsibility. And in other areas of human interaction, failing to take our responsibilities seriously no matter what the reason comes with great penalties. Why has this changed?

 

[northstar]

Remember the one line from Spiderman that with great power comes great responsibility. In my mind, that is the issue. Not MP3 players, running into the street, crossing against the lights. These are not new stupid things that pedestrians do. We have not invented these problems. It has been going on for years. We must hold drivers responsible because with the right to drive a car on our roads comes great responsibility. And in other areas of human interaction, failing to take our responsibilities seriously no matter what the reason comes with great penalties. Why has this changed?

I may be generalizing, but North American society has become more self-absorbed and just plain rude.
Everyone is impatient, and common courtesy seems to have disappeared from the roads

Drivers at fault:
- Turning right at red lights without coming to a full stop or waiting for pedestrians should be stopped. Perhaps right turns at red lights should be made illegal again.

Pedestrians at fault:
I don't care if pedestrians jaywalk (when it is safe to do so).
But when pedestrians dart out into the middle of the road, without waiting for a clear break in traffic, this causes a problem.
It's especially a problem when they do this at night while dressed all in black (which somebody identified in an earlier post).
I've noticed pedestrians run from between parked cars in an effort to hurry to the other side of a street, oftentimes when it wasn't safe to do so.
We know enough to teach our kids not to do this, so why are grown adults doing it?
Pedestrians need to realize too that drivers have only one pair of eyes - and when pedestrians dart into traffic unexpectedly, then this causes a danger.

A little bit more respect from pedestrians would help, just as must as a little bit more respect from drivers would help.

 

[Confused]

Well put northstar. There is no single party to blame here. But I still believe that the preponderance of responsibility remains with the person managing that 2 tons of metal and plastic along our motorways. There should be no right turns on red lights as this is a nightmare for even the most responsible pedestrian. You have pointed out those situations where pedestrians act badly. Do you feel safe crossing at Steeles and Dufferin even when you obey all the signals? I doubt it. Sure, when people do stupid things, bad things happen. But it's gotten to the point that I feel that I am taking my life in my hands no matter where I cross because of aggressive drivers who seem to think that cars and pedestrians are equal. They are not at law, At law, pedestrians continue to have the right of way. Poor enforcement of the existing laws is part of the problem. Pedestrians should be aggressively ticketed for J walking and drivers should be as well for for failing to yield to pedestrians. When I cross the street anywhere, I have no confidence that drivers will yield to pedestrians not matter what the situation. And those that do, do so begrudgingly.

 

[cowpie]

Also, how many knew that turning right on an amber/yellow light without stopping is also illegal?

Another article related to the topic at hand:
http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2010/01/27/f-road-safety-pedestrians-drivers.html

How pedestrians, cyclists and drivers can get along a little better

It's war out there as an ever-increasing number of drivers, pedestrians and cyclists compete for space on the world's roads.

Motor vehicle-related fatalities have been a fact of life since Irish scientist Mary Ward fell under the wheels of her cousin's steam-powered automobile in August 1869. She fell out of the vehicle as it hit a sharp curve — long before cars came with seat belts, air bags or even doors and drivers were distracted by GPS devices, cellphones or hot coffee spilling in their laps.

Thirty years later, Henry Bliss stepped off a trolley in New York City, turned to help the woman he was accompanying and was hit by a taxi. He died later in hospital, becoming the first pedestrian to be killed by a motor vehicle.

...

There's actually an interesting graphic halfway down the page that you can hover over to get tips for different road users and pedestrians on "staying alive."

 

[tkip]

I may be generalizing, but North American society has become more self-absorbed and just plain rude.
Everyone is impatient, and common courtesy seems to have disappeared from the roads

Drivers at fault:
- Turning right at red lights without coming to a full stop or waiting for pedestrians should be stopped. Perhaps right turns at red lights should be made illegal again.

Pedestrians at fault:
I don't care if pedestrians jaywalk (when it is safe to do so).
But when pedestrians dart out into the middle of the road, without waiting for a clear break in traffic, this causes a problem.
It's especially a problem when they do this at night while dressed all in black (which somebody identified in an earlier post).
I've noticed pedestrians run from between parked cars in an effort to hurry to the other side of a street, oftentimes when it wasn't safe to do so.
We know enough to teach our kids not to do this, so why are grown adults doing it?
Pedestrians need to realize too that drivers have only one pair of eyes - and when pedestrians dart into traffic unexpectedly, then this causes a danger.

A little bit more respect from pedestrians would help, just as must as a little bit more respect from drivers would help.

I couldn't have said this better.

The problem is both the drivers and pedestrians. Both are in a hurry, being impatient and just plain making insane decisions out there and people are getting killed through a combination of human error and stupidity..

But we live in a culture now where people are protected from their bad decisions and this is part of the problem. How do you educate people to be more responsible when they think they're entitled and making excuses for their mistakes?

It's a real issue and it's getting out of hand.

 

[nfitz]

If the crosswalk is full of green-light pedestrians and there is traffic, well, that's life. Not an excuse to dodge your way in and risk some other poor person's life so you can get home 10 minutes earlier. And if you can't deal with that challenge, well, there's always the TTC, walking, biking, pogo sticks, etc.

I 100% agree. If the intersection is too busy to make a right-hand turn on a green-light, then perhaps one shouldn't be turning there; perhaps the intersection should be changed to no right-turns like the Yonge/Dundas intersection. At such an intersection the number of pedestrians must completely out-number drivers.

Pedestrians have right of way. End of story. There are no exceptions. It think it's time pedestrians started carrying metal sticks around to hit cars that get to close to them.

And yes, I drive.

 

[UrbanPrincess]

I 100% agree. If the intersection is too busy to make a right-hand turn on a green-light, then perhaps one shouldn't be turning there; perhaps the intersection should be changed to no right-turns like the Yonge/Dundas intersection. At such an intersection the number of pedestrians must completely out-number drivers.

Pedestrians have right of way. End of story. There are no exceptions. It think it's time pedestrians started carrying metal sticks around to hit cars that get to close to them.

And yes, I drive.

Some drivers don't even know about that rule at yonge and dundas. almost got hit twice last year.

yesterday i was heading to Union (along Front street heading west). I came to the intersection of Front and York where drivers were creating grid-lock like there was no tomorrow (going southbound from university onto York). When the lights changed allowing pedestrians to cross east-west along Front and the traffic cleared up in front of them, they would start moving up neglecting pedestrians or the general rules of the road. They even honked at us to get out of the way because apparently they NEEDED to get out of the intersection as fast as possible.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Those main-street-pedestrian-signals-counting-down-to-zero-then-back-to-walk can be very irritating to pedestrians coming up to the intersection wanting to cross the main street. That can end up as a longer wait.

It can be especially really frustrating if you see your bus a block or two away coming to the stop on the other side, and the main street countdowns to zero but returns to walk. What do you do? Concede that you will miss the bus and will have to wait another 10 minutes, or jaywalk if the way is clear to get to the bus stop before the bus arrives? All because of the false assumption with the countdown signal.

Instead of a flashing hand, it should be a flashing walk figure, if a pedestrian hasn't pressed their button. Should a pedestrian press the button, the pedestrian signal for the main street could then change to the flashing hand.

 

[Archivist]

Surely both pedestrians and drivers bear responsibility here, that goes without saying. Nonetheless, I find the assigning of equal amounts of blame in some of the comments above to be misguided, a bit of a red herring. Unless I'm misreading something, almost all of the recent incidents involve pedestrians crossing at intersections when and where they were supposed to. Given that fact, saying "we both have responsibilities" misses the point that pedestrians seem to be at risk not by wearing black, or jumping out into traffic, but by assuming that cars will behave as they ought to.

Hume makes the point that we are probably more likely to be safe by jaywalking, because we take nothing for granted. Those who die, for the most part, are not misbehaving in any way at all, apart from assuming that cars will see them and stop for them.

 

[vz64]

I 100% agree. If the intersection is too busy to make a right-hand turn on a green-light, then perhaps one shouldn't be turning there; perhaps the intersection should be changed to no right-turns like the Yonge/Dundas intersection. At such an intersection the number of pedestrians must completely out-number drivers.

Pedestrians have right of way. End of story. There are no exceptions. It think it's time pedestrians started carrying metal sticks around to hit cars that get to close to them.

And yes, I drive.

A few months ago I was making a right turn at Yonge & Sheppard waiting for pedestrians to clear the intersection. Well, the fellow behind me in Escalade thought he had enough, passed me and turned left while accelerating. He almost hit a pedestrian. That chap got impatient thinking probably that I should’ve used a small gap between people, so he showed me how it suppose to be done, in the process almost hitting a pedestrian…

Yes, I try to avoid intersections that I had a bad experience crossing; I agree that many of them should be converted to no-right turn. I disagree with your black and white "end of story/no exceptions" comment. What if there is a green light, but I still have a few pedestrians taking their time crossing the intersection? Should I just go, no exceptions? Oh yes, I am driving a metal box that gives me advantage (well, I drive Yaris). Then we need to be aware of the same type of advantage that bicycles have over pedestrians, small cars vs bicycles, SUV vs small cars, 16 wheelers vs SUV... My principle is to follow rules when possible and be aware of the situation at hand; it works for me as a driver and as a pedestrian.

 

[nfitz]

What if there is a green light, but I still have a few pedestrians taking their time crossing the intersection?

If there is a gap, go (carefully). I'm suprised at cross-walks to see cars stopping for an entire 4-lane crossing, even when the pedestrian has passed a lane or two beyond them; polite certainly, but necessary?

Even in the worst situation, you should be able to get one or two cars through on the yellow ... that's the only way to make left-turns in traffic in this city when there is no advance green.

 

[vz64]

What if there is no gap? Well, you just reinforcing my point of being flexible... I can't count how many time I had to stop while making a left turn to avoid hitting a pedestrian who was crossing on the red. Actually, I can count; look at stats numbers I quoted earlier, out of the total number of pedestrian injuries at intersection, 42% were crossing without right-of-way.

 

[doady]

Actually, I can count; look at stats numbers I quoted earlier, out of the total number of pedestrian injuries at intersection, 42% were crossing without right-of-way.

Which means 58% were crossing with right-of-way, and still got hit anyway?

 

[vz64]

Unfortunately, yes And I do I agree that drivers should be more responsible regardless of who is at fault; my point is that pedestrians are fair contirubutors to that gloomy statistics...