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adma
Guest
Re: We need something new
The plot thickens...
The plot thickens...
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AlvinofDiaspar
Guest
Re: We need something new
e.guy:
Nasty. I suppose one would do well reminding him what Chicago's murder rate is compared to ours.
One thing I will give them - they lay claim to IML. On that note, I am off to the Harbourfront/Church Street Fetish Fair.
AoD
e.guy:
Nasty. I suppose one would do well reminding him what Chicago's murder rate is compared to ours.
One thing I will give them - they lay claim to IML. On that note, I am off to the Harbourfront/Church Street Fetish Fair.
AoD
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adma
Guest
Re: We need something new
Well, it goes to show you; watch it with how you put tourists on a pedestal. Maybe their problems with Toronto are truly that--"their problems".
It also goes to show you that when you come from a society acclimatized to wall-off-the-riff-raff "gatedness"--even in the name of a so-called "cultural class" (college towns, gay villages, etc--heck, even obvious tourist-itinerary-districts)--the sublime "ungatedness", everything-flow-togetherness of Toronto can be singularly disorienting, maybe even exasperating.
A bit of advice re pizza, though; rather than dissing your friend, why not just order from Pizza Gigi or something. (And note: I said Pizza Gigi, not Pizza Pizza, if you get my drift.)
Well, it goes to show you; watch it with how you put tourists on a pedestal. Maybe their problems with Toronto are truly that--"their problems".
It also goes to show you that when you come from a society acclimatized to wall-off-the-riff-raff "gatedness"--even in the name of a so-called "cultural class" (college towns, gay villages, etc--heck, even obvious tourist-itinerary-districts)--the sublime "ungatedness", everything-flow-togetherness of Toronto can be singularly disorienting, maybe even exasperating.
A bit of advice re pizza, though; rather than dissing your friend, why not just order from Pizza Gigi or something. (And note: I said Pizza Gigi, not Pizza Pizza, if you get my drift.)
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DarnDirtyApe
Guest
Re: We need something new
It might be a little late for the thread, but for what it's worth I've seen tons of obvious tourists around this month.
I think your perception of tourism in Toronto really depends on where you spend your time in the city. I work at BCE place, and the place seems to be crawling with tourist. The AIDS conference has really boosted the number of people sightseeing too.
It's important to keep in mind that not all tourists are easy to spot. This city is so diverse that it's often hard to tell who's the local and who's the tourist...
It might be a little late for the thread, but for what it's worth I've seen tons of obvious tourists around this month.
I think your perception of tourism in Toronto really depends on where you spend your time in the city. I work at BCE place, and the place seems to be crawling with tourist. The AIDS conference has really boosted the number of people sightseeing too.
It's important to keep in mind that not all tourists are easy to spot. This city is so diverse that it's often hard to tell who's the local and who's the tourist...
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ganjavih
Guest
Re: We need something new
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rbtaylor
Guest
Re: We need something new
esplanade guy
Some people make bad tourists. If you cannot 'be a local' for a while then there is no point in travelling. Many cities seem to have the same touristy attractions, might as well visit the ones at home as elsewhere.
esplanade guy
Some people make bad tourists. If you cannot 'be a local' for a while then there is no point in travelling. Many cities seem to have the same touristy attractions, might as well visit the ones at home as elsewhere.
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esplanade guy
Guest
selling "ETHNIC" Toronto
I hear a lot of the "experts" saying how multi-culturalism is our strength and we need to promote it but In my experiences, every single tourist I meet, seems to see it as a bad thing and want to avoid it as much as possible. (As Mr. Chicago did) Multi-culturalism probably hurts tourism more then it promotes it. (In the USA anyway) Personally, I love it, I don't care what American tourists think, it is to our benifit. I'm just saying, in America, it probably turns more potential tourists off and it will not encourage tourists to come here. In the USA, we need a different focus. Anyway, as he pointed out, Chicago has multi-culturalism too, or so they think. (I disagree!)
Am I in the right thread for this? lol Maybe I should have started another thread (How to sell Toronto or How do deal with disappointed Americans) It's just that this thread was discussing these issues.
I hear a lot of the "experts" saying how multi-culturalism is our strength and we need to promote it but In my experiences, every single tourist I meet, seems to see it as a bad thing and want to avoid it as much as possible. (As Mr. Chicago did) Multi-culturalism probably hurts tourism more then it promotes it. (In the USA anyway) Personally, I love it, I don't care what American tourists think, it is to our benifit. I'm just saying, in America, it probably turns more potential tourists off and it will not encourage tourists to come here. In the USA, we need a different focus. Anyway, as he pointed out, Chicago has multi-culturalism too, or so they think. (I disagree!)
Am I in the right thread for this? lol Maybe I should have started another thread (How to sell Toronto or How do deal with disappointed Americans) It's just that this thread was discussing these issues.
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Archivistower
Guest
Re: selling "ETHNIC" Toronto
esplanade, how frustrating. Of course, people from any country or anywhere can be like that, and I don't think it reflects on Toronto if they are.
Appropriate response: "If you feel this way when you travel to Canada, don't waste your time. And by the way, I've decided not to waste my time showing you around or spending time with you, so bye".
esplanade, how frustrating. Of course, people from any country or anywhere can be like that, and I don't think it reflects on Toronto if they are.
Appropriate response: "If you feel this way when you travel to Canada, don't waste your time. And by the way, I've decided not to waste my time showing you around or spending time with you, so bye".
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esplanade guy
Guest
Anti-Toronto rants
've had a lot of experience with tourists from all over but mainly from the USA, so at this point I am good at knowing when to call it a day. I enjoy meeting tourists and showing people around town. I have had 3 experiences with American tourists who kept repeating over and over "I am so lucky I live in Boston". (one from Boston, one from San Francisco and now Chicago) The theme is always the same, I am so lucky I live in Chicago and don't live in Toronto. The other two times were when I lived in Montreal. Mr. San Francisco even said to me "God, I am so lucky to live in the most beautiful city in the world and you have to live here, I feel so sorry for you". I moved to Montreal because I love Montreal, I think it's a great place, so I didn't know what to say to that comment but I was PISSED!!! (And I'm not even a montrealer lol) So, how do you deal with that kind of in your face, direct, American approach, without getting into a messy fight? I just kind of backed off and let him talk at first but then he came out with "I fell so bad because you guys are so poor and we American's are so rich". I had to say something, so my reply was like save your sympathy and money for places in Africa who are more in need then us. We're not so poor. lol It's hard for me to think of humours things to say in situations like that.
Anybody have any suggestions in dealing diplomatically, with tourist situations like that? Being gay and out a lot, I meet a lot of tourists. Most were pretty positive about Toronto and Montreal. Others were critical in a diplomatic way, which is cool but I have also heard a whole lot of anti-Toronto/Montreal rants and I usually just smile.
've had a lot of experience with tourists from all over but mainly from the USA, so at this point I am good at knowing when to call it a day. I enjoy meeting tourists and showing people around town. I have had 3 experiences with American tourists who kept repeating over and over "I am so lucky I live in Boston". (one from Boston, one from San Francisco and now Chicago) The theme is always the same, I am so lucky I live in Chicago and don't live in Toronto. The other two times were when I lived in Montreal. Mr. San Francisco even said to me "God, I am so lucky to live in the most beautiful city in the world and you have to live here, I feel so sorry for you". I moved to Montreal because I love Montreal, I think it's a great place, so I didn't know what to say to that comment but I was PISSED!!! (And I'm not even a montrealer lol) So, how do you deal with that kind of in your face, direct, American approach, without getting into a messy fight? I just kind of backed off and let him talk at first but then he came out with "I fell so bad because you guys are so poor and we American's are so rich". I had to say something, so my reply was like save your sympathy and money for places in Africa who are more in need then us. We're not so poor. lol It's hard for me to think of humours things to say in situations like that.
Anybody have any suggestions in dealing diplomatically, with tourist situations like that? Being gay and out a lot, I meet a lot of tourists. Most were pretty positive about Toronto and Montreal. Others were critical in a diplomatic way, which is cool but I have also heard a whole lot of anti-Toronto/Montreal rants and I usually just smile.
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Greg29Toronto
Guest
Re: Anti-Toronto rants
Take it all in, keep smiling and then change the subject to George Bush. Continue smiling.
Revenge can be sweet.
Take it all in, keep smiling and then change the subject to George Bush. Continue smiling.
Revenge can be sweet.
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building babel
Guest
Re: Anti-Toronto rants
Nobody hates the U.S. like my friend Ron does. He deserted from their army in 1968, during the Vietnam war, and took the underground railroad to freedom in out country. He is involved in support groups for the current crop of ex-military refugees from the U.S. war culture, because he knows from experience what they're going through and wants to help these guys.
In short, his experience - as having been an American until his early twenties - is that Americans are brainwashed from birth to think that their country is all that matters and that nowhere else compares. That's just the way it is, says Ron, and the rest of the world has to deal with it. Over the years I have developed much sympathy for his view, though I was skeptical at first. Perhaps these are the kind of Americans, up here with their idealogical blinkers firmly in place, that e.guy has come up against ( so to speak ).
Nobody hates the U.S. like my friend Ron does. He deserted from their army in 1968, during the Vietnam war, and took the underground railroad to freedom in out country. He is involved in support groups for the current crop of ex-military refugees from the U.S. war culture, because he knows from experience what they're going through and wants to help these guys.
In short, his experience - as having been an American until his early twenties - is that Americans are brainwashed from birth to think that their country is all that matters and that nowhere else compares. That's just the way it is, says Ron, and the rest of the world has to deal with it. Over the years I have developed much sympathy for his view, though I was skeptical at first. Perhaps these are the kind of Americans, up here with their idealogical blinkers firmly in place, that e.guy has come up against ( so to speak ).
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adma
Guest
Re: Anti-Toronto rants
Maybe a solution might be to not treat such folks like tourists, but as "honorary locals"--and if they don't like it, tough, it's not your fault or my fault that they chose the rather shallow "tourist" route and perspective.
And as I've said before, tourism is overrated--and my own natural reflex is to be an "honorary local", wherever I go...
Maybe a solution might be to not treat such folks like tourists, but as "honorary locals"--and if they don't like it, tough, it's not your fault or my fault that they chose the rather shallow "tourist" route and perspective.
And as I've said before, tourism is overrated--and my own natural reflex is to be an "honorary local", wherever I go...
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Antiloop33rpm
Guest
Re: Anti-Toronto rants
My thoughts on tourists are too avoid them at any costs. If I am approached by someone of course I will be freindly, polite and helpful but that tends to be the extent of it. If someone is visiting and seems to be genuinely keen on exploring and being open minded I will gladly invite them to my home, show them around and be a 'guide' for the day.
What I tend to find with American tourists is they are far less interested in simply exploring, instead wanting destinations, attractions, entertainment. The only exception being those people who live within a stones throw of Canada or those from some of the dwindling Liberal states such as Vermont or New York (or smaller pockets such as Austin).
Conversely, I find Canadians enjoy the human aspect of travelling much more. It isnt just enough to go somewhere. The fun of interacting and talking with locals, learning about their history and culture first hand, even engaging in debates and discussions on points of contention. Our cities tend to reflect that nature as well which leaves more closed minded people out of luck.
That is just my own perspective though and is a good explanation as too why I would rather spend a few days in a small European city as opposed too most American cities (with the usual exceptions).
My thoughts on tourists are too avoid them at any costs. If I am approached by someone of course I will be freindly, polite and helpful but that tends to be the extent of it. If someone is visiting and seems to be genuinely keen on exploring and being open minded I will gladly invite them to my home, show them around and be a 'guide' for the day.
What I tend to find with American tourists is they are far less interested in simply exploring, instead wanting destinations, attractions, entertainment. The only exception being those people who live within a stones throw of Canada or those from some of the dwindling Liberal states such as Vermont or New York (or smaller pockets such as Austin).
Conversely, I find Canadians enjoy the human aspect of travelling much more. It isnt just enough to go somewhere. The fun of interacting and talking with locals, learning about their history and culture first hand, even engaging in debates and discussions on points of contention. Our cities tend to reflect that nature as well which leaves more closed minded people out of luck.
That is just my own perspective though and is a good explanation as too why I would rather spend a few days in a small European city as opposed too most American cities (with the usual exceptions).
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Archivistower
Guest
Re: Anti-Toronto rants
Antiloop, I couldn't agree more with your post, and I think you've put your finger on it - there really is an element of wanting to be entertained and not wanting ambiguity - so it's good to have signage, for instance, that tells you when you are arriving somewhere.
Antiloop, I couldn't agree more with your post, and I think you've put your finger on it - there really is an element of wanting to be entertained and not wanting ambiguity - so it's good to have signage, for instance, that tells you when you are arriving somewhere.
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tudararms
Guest
Re: Anti-Toronto rants
Esplanade: Believe it or not that guy probably went home and raved about his hot time in Toronto!
Esplanade: Believe it or not that guy probably went home and raved about his hot time in Toronto!