drum118
Superstar
March 15
That parking deck is very large and not haft done yet.
That parking deck is very large and not haft done yet.
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- Thread starter CharmAlarm
- Start date
Condocraze
New Member
Hopefully this dump of an area doesn't smell like death on hot Summer days because of the remaining meat factories.
Jaye101
Active Member
Oh, it will.
drum118
Superstar
Where do you plan on moving it too as well why convert employment land to big box/residential use???
Isn't work, play, and live supposed to be in the same area to deal with traffic issues???
Love the smell on a nice hot sunny day.
junctionist
Senior Member
The smell is rather trivial now compared to how it used to be. For some reason, the Stock Yards generally sees the crudest urban planning you'll find in the city. The lack of population density helps ensure little pressure on the city to improve anything.
drum118
Superstar
The city really screw up this area in more ways than enough.
Allowing that housing development to be built into the rail corridor is #1.
#2 was not get rid of the Keele Jog both at St Clair as well Eglinton.
#3 chasing industries out of the area and building Big Box development with no thought about traffic issues for it.
#4 not allowing for residential over this development considering transit is at the front door there now.
#5 why built a parking structure and raised the land at great expense as well causing all kinds of problems for the local residents when it could been underground at the fraction of the cost of normal underground garages. Would allow for more retail space as well residential at a higher return on the investment dollar.
DtTO
Active Member
1) what's wrong with the housing there? The train being next door lowers land values and makes the area appealing to some. If you don't like it, don't buy there. It's that simple.
3) The area is very well connected to mass transit. Chasing industry out? The city is getting dense, and commercial is obviously going to replace industry. That's not the city chasing industry out, but the residents demanding better living quality. Would you rather live next to a well thought out urban shopping centre or a meat processing plant?
4) First, you criticize the decision to add housing next door, then you lament the lack of thought when it comes to traffic, and now you're criticizing commercial development? Are you suggesting that commercial land doesn't benefit from being next to a streetcar line? Having transit at the front door is just as important for commercial as it is for residential. If the streetcar line wasn't present, the number of parking spaces would've likely been doubled (or more).
5) Underground parking is expensive. You can't possibly expect all parking to be underground. Besides, as long as the parking isn't facing the street, and doesn't create any dead zones, what's the issue? If economics determine that more retail space is required, I'm sure they can add new buildings and place the parking on top or below them.
3) The area is very well connected to mass transit. Chasing industry out? The city is getting dense, and commercial is obviously going to replace industry. That's not the city chasing industry out, but the residents demanding better living quality. Would you rather live next to a well thought out urban shopping centre or a meat processing plant?
4) First, you criticize the decision to add housing next door, then you lament the lack of thought when it comes to traffic, and now you're criticizing commercial development? Are you suggesting that commercial land doesn't benefit from being next to a streetcar line? Having transit at the front door is just as important for commercial as it is for residential. If the streetcar line wasn't present, the number of parking spaces would've likely been doubled (or more).
5) Underground parking is expensive. You can't possibly expect all parking to be underground. Besides, as long as the parking isn't facing the street, and doesn't create any dead zones, what's the issue? If economics determine that more retail space is required, I'm sure they can add new buildings and place the parking on top or below them.
Grimace
Active Member
1) Allowing the housing means Keele cannot be extended with a bridge across the track to eliminate the Keele jog, increasing the traffic mess in the area.
3) The area is moderately connected to mass transit but is nevertheless a traffic nightmare (particularly with St. Clair down to one lane each way under the tracks) that is going to get way worse with everyone coming to Target. A big box development should either be well connected to mass transit or be in a good location for vehicle traffic. This is neither.
4) His point on (4) was that this should have had residential on top of the commercial for a mixed-use, urban development instead of a suburban mall that happens to have street frontage. Your comment does not respond to that in any fashion.
5) I am actually of the view that all parking in major new developments that are within the streetcar portion of the city should be underground. But drum's point was that the topography of this site would actually allow underground parking at less than most sites. I don't know anything about that, and am guessing you don't either.
I've come to view this as an absurd development. If it does not create complete gridlock on Keele, St. Clair and Weston I'll be shocked.
3) The area is moderately connected to mass transit but is nevertheless a traffic nightmare (particularly with St. Clair down to one lane each way under the tracks) that is going to get way worse with everyone coming to Target. A big box development should either be well connected to mass transit or be in a good location for vehicle traffic. This is neither.
4) His point on (4) was that this should have had residential on top of the commercial for a mixed-use, urban development instead of a suburban mall that happens to have street frontage. Your comment does not respond to that in any fashion.
5) I am actually of the view that all parking in major new developments that are within the streetcar portion of the city should be underground. But drum's point was that the topography of this site would actually allow underground parking at less than most sites. I don't know anything about that, and am guessing you don't either.
I've come to view this as an absurd development. If it does not create complete gridlock on Keele, St. Clair and Weston I'll be shocked.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
According to the 2012-2021 Capital Program, at this link, the work on the St. Clair West / Metrolinx Grade Separation is to occur from 2015 to 2018, with most of work occurring in 2017 and 2018.
The bridge money is coming from Metrolinx and the railways, and the road money from Toronto. Too bad it wasn't done when they were doing the right-of-way.
In the meantime, they will be working on the Scarlett/St. Clair/Dundas interchange, from 2013 to 2015. Which is why there is such a delay.
The bridge money is coming from Metrolinx and the railways, and the road money from Toronto. Too bad it wasn't done when they were doing the right-of-way.
In the meantime, they will be working on the Scarlett/St. Clair/Dundas interchange, from 2013 to 2015. Which is why there is such a delay.
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W. K. Lis
Superstar
Grimace
Active Member
Are the junctioneer and the junctionist related?
junctionist
Senior Member
No. I got the name first, and it dates back to the original Urban Toronto forum on ezboard. I planned on starting a blog about the neighbourhood but didn't get around to it until a few years later. Soon after, I wasn't blogging frequently because I was travelling a lot and not in the Junction that often. Junctioneer turned out to be a great blog that helped me to keep in touch with what's going on in the neighbourhood, and I often leave comments.
urbandreamer
recession proof
4 August 2013: Rather ugly waste of space, eh?
drum118
Superstar
Going by this place on Sunday was a head spinning feeling with all the double and triple deck parking structure still being built. Most of the steel is up for all the retail under this phase.
You need to walk around this whole complex to get a feel for it as well look at what it could be.
This area will be a traffic nightmare even once St Clair bridge is built.
You need to walk around this whole complex to get a feel for it as well look at what it could be.
This area will be a traffic nightmare even once St Clair bridge is built.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
This past Simcoe weekend, noticed concrete bridge spans in the Home Depot parking lots. (Wonder if they'll be towed for overnight parking?) Likely will be placed as overhead walkways, too thin for automobile use, at The Stockyards soon.