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voxpopulicosmicum said:
^
It's heartening that city council has finally grown a spine to stand up to usurious plate owners. .
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Please behave your sarcasm. Your quote could have been taken from a "talk show" that was cancelled after one episode that was hosted by someone at city hall (and he only insinuated...very strongly...but insinuated).

And also understand your terms:

usary - making of unethical or immoral loans
loan shark - loans at extremely high rates that usually refer to illegal activities

...I fail to see the difference...just you are referring to the rental of a license and I am referring to a loan. But at least I understand that even though you say it is not ideology...your view that anyone who rents something that they bought is usurious tells me your ideology. Do you know the rental income based on the purchase price of $350,000? It needs to be 30%+ (100k/year) to start to be questioned as unethical (that's what some credits cards charge).

And I am in the real world...and understand busienss 101. I know who and the reasons bank will loan money for the purchase of all of the old licenses. Will they loan money to a taxi driver (which their industry lobbyists say make virtually no money) for a license which the city may change? 1. They cannot seize the property and resell and 2. due to the low levels of income there may not be a credit history

So taxi drivers who want to buy a license after working for one of the garages will get money from "non-traditional" sources (does that term make you happier?) The new owner of the license will have onerous loan terms, high rates, etc.

Alternatively, people who do have the money will buy the license and take the good shifts. Leaving the current drivers either out of work or with the crappy shifts. This proposal will only help the Ambassador plate owners...no one else.

And seperate ownership from maintenance. Both groups have good and bad taxi's. It's simple...since the fare is fixed, maintenance does not drive sales...it's a commodity so why make it comfortable? They need to regulate the maintenance.
 
Let's both agree to behave our sarcasm, okay?

Your reference to the spectre of loan sharking is a laughable moral panic. Let me make my analogy more clear by restating it: if you want to find usury in the taxi business, you don't need to imagine a future loan shark. Instead, look at the current licence "rental" racket.

I have no horse in this race. I'll pay the same taxi fares no matter how they get divided among the driver, plate owner, brokerage, garage, etc. How about you?

The current system is designed and operated for the benefit of absentee plate owners, most of whom paid far less than $300k for their plates. Why is "absentee plate owners" a consituency whose interests are worthy of protection? Should the system not instead be designed to provide safe jobs for drivers and safe taxis for customers? Owning a plate yields no value to anyone except the owner.
 
voxpopulicosmicum said:
I have no horse in this race. I'll pay the same taxi fares no matter how they get divided among the driver, plate owner, brokerage, garage, etc. How about you?
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The only relationships I have with taxi's is to use them as well. If I recall, the last time this came up for discussion at city hall there were questions regarding lobbying and "donations" to politicians. Was there any of that this time?
 
Admiral Beez said:
I don't believe the cost or method of obtaining the new taxi plate has been announced. How do we know it's going to be massively expensive. It might cost the same as a food cart permit http://torontofoodtrucks.ca/how-to-start-a-food-truck-in-toronto-101 about a thousand bucks a year.
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As I understand from various articles, all current plate holders will receive a new plate (as long as they are a part-time driver). I am assuming that the plates can still be transferred, etc. similar to the old plates.
 
muller877 said:
As I understand from various articles, all current plate holders will receive a new plate (as long as they are a part-time driver). I am assuming that the plates can still be transferred, etc. similar to the old plates.
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That seems fair enough to me. If you're using the permit to provide the service it was intended for (i.e. actually driving the cab), then it seems reasonable that you get first dibs on the new plate.

Are there any other city regulated services for which absentees can hold multiple permits and then charge others to use them? I think of food trucks, can I own one or more permits and then not own any trucks or provide any service, but can then let out my permits to others?
 
Admiral Beez said:
That seems fair enough to me. If you're using the permit to provide the service it was intended for (i.e. actually driving the cab), then it seems reasonable that you get first dibs on the new plate.

Are there any other city regulated services for which absentees can hold multiple permits and then charge others to use them? I think of food trucks, can I own one or more permits and then not own any trucks or provide any service, but can then let out my permits to others?
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http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2014/ls/bgrd/backgroundfile-66258.pdf

To confirm, the new licenses are intended to be transferrable ($$$). And Ambassador plates that convert can be sold. Standard plates when sold must be sold to a owner/operator. 167 hours per week minimum.

List of other licenses:
restuarants
plumbers
barber shop
bowling alley
...etc
 
muller877 said:
List of other licenses:
restuarants
plumbers
barber shop
bowling alley
...etc
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Thanks for the list of other licenses. If I own a restaurant, and decide to leave the biz and stop running a restaurant, does my license have a cash value that I can then either sell or let out to someone else? I think this is where the public scratches its head concerning taxis, in that there is a group of people that do not provide the service, but that own the licences.
 
interesting topic for a thread

only one way to fix toronto taxi system , self driving taxi robot cabs lol....
this whole debate if taxi drivers make good money or not ??? every time i have this discussion with people no one ever has a clear answer , and a taxi driver will always tell you he doesn't make much $$$ in order to get a bigger tip , but really if the money sucks , why not just quit and start working at walmart ??? , they must make good money i think , or they make bad money but like the fact of sitting around driving a cab all day vs. heavy lifting in a factory type of job ???
 
slickpete83 said:
interesting topic for a thread

only one way to fix toronto taxi system , self driving taxi robot cabs lol....
this whole debate if taxi drivers make good money or not ??? every time i have this discussion with people no one ever has a clear answer , and a taxi driver will always tell you he doesn't make much $$$ in order to get a bigger tip , but really if the money sucks , why not just quit and start working at walmart ??? , they must make good money i think , or they make bad money but like the fact of sitting around driving a cab all day vs. heavy lifting in a factory type of job ???
Click to expand...

The money's probably not consistently great, but you can pull down a lot by working lots of hours and it beats manual labour.

I would like to see a system of driver training & testing, because some of these drivers we have now clearly don't give a crap about safe driving practices (sudden unsignalled U-turns, bald tires) and have mediocre navigational skills. I don't want to have to tell a cabbie not to stay in the curb lane - because there are parked cars coming up in the next block or two - just because he doesn't bother to drive strategically.
 
Admiral Beez said:
Well, it looks like the city wants to return/keep the dual plate model, where non-drivers own the plates for ever.
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I believe there has to be adequate consultation with stakeholders before they can change. I thought there was a ruling a couple of months ago that the new rules were pushed through without consultation.

I hope there is a larger consultation with all the stakeholders. There are a couple of fundamental questions that need to be addressed (including Uber):

1. Should the City be regulating the number of taxis to make sure drivers can make a certain amount of income? Or should this be based on supply and demand econonics
2. Should the City regulate the number of taxis for other reasons such as availability in all areas of Toronto, accessibility for the disabled, etc. And is the best method to ensure the above is regulating the number of taxis or another method (i.e. sales tax on all rides with a subsidy for taxis that are accessible)
3. Should the city be regulating the driver (like London)?
4. Should prices be regulated for everyone?

I personally believe the system doesn't work right now. I don't want to get into a Toronto taxi (either type of plate) since most of them are 15 years old, no suspension and the driver doesn't know how to get to most major destinations. Some drivers and cars are quite nice (Imperial for example) but they are not the majority.

So once the city figures out the reason for regulating they can then regulate all drivers/cars. And also figure out transitional rules. But the one-plate system won't work with Uber and whatever changes are ahead.

I think there will be a large increase in the number of professional Uber drivers once UPE is up and running. There will be a lot of Town Car's that will be sitting idle and its a way for these cars that are unlicensed in Toronto to make some money. I would certainly pick these with Uber over a old taxi.
 
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