[DENTROBATE54]

Because your an obsessively contrarian gas bag who simply writes to see his own words in print, IMO.

Say something contributive to the discussion, without filling your own post with quotes from other contributors, and maybe I'll take you off my ignore list (should've known better to take you off to read this thread). Why you care if I read or see your nonsensical, argumentative posts, I don't know.

If my writing style offends you, I'm sorry. That's how I normally enter discussions. It's not to see my name in print or attack other posters. When the thread reopened I was in no rush to proclaim my elations over africentric schools approval, someone whose an obsessive contrarian gas bag probably would have.

My POV, before I was erroroneously called a bigoted racist, was that turning black youths lives around at any cost like this sounds a million times better than having no other options than going through the public system where any claims of prejudice are scuffed off as 'race card/balme whitey' whining.

Fortunately, this doesn't happen...this is propoganda used to shift the blame. A black student raising his/her hand and providing an intelligent answer, will be punished by the other black students, who now view this person as a 'sell out'....whitey has nothing to do with this.

Well this is only one school out of total population of 2.5 million. The attitude that educated blacks are 'sellouts' must and hopefully by glamorizing education to underachieveing blacks, will be a thing of the past. What we tend to forget sometimes is how demanding special treatment for some, equates to overall improvement for every black student and society in general. Once an injustice is publicized, systematic discrimination is snuffed out and reforms/closer attention to blacks' academic preformances will be done to ensure no one's left behind.

 

[I-Z1]

The attitude that educated blacks are 'sellouts' must and hopefully by glamorizing education to underachieveing blacks, will be a thing of the past.

Why did you create this attitude in the first place, seems to be counterproductive.

What we tend to forget sometimes is how demanding special treatment for some, equates to overall improvement for every black student and society in general.

Another example of your racism...why do you only speak of black people...are there no other races in this city? Are blacks more important then any other race...it certainly seems that way, with what you're posting, and what the school board has decided.
I asked you pages ago, where are the alternative schools for the other races? the other visible (and invisible minorities), why do black people deserve special treatment on my dime?
Care to answer any of those?

My POV, before I was erroroneously called a bigoted racist

There was nothing 'erroroneously' (sic) attributed to you...sometimes the truth hurts..get over it.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

Why did you create this attitude in the first place, seems to be counterproductive.

Did I? This might surprise you but I was labelled a sellout throughout high school just because of my drive to excel academically. See I'm not all blame-whitey as you'd think, but that also doesn't mean I'm not aware how some people can and are hateful towards black progress because for some reason they feel the opportunity blacks will get, should be their's even if their ethnicity on average gets more oppurtunities in society already.

Another example of your racism...why do you only speak of black people...are there no other races in this city? Are blacks more important then any other race...it certainly seems that way, with what you're posting, and what the school board has decided.
I asked you pages ago, where are the alternative schools for the other races? the other visible (and invisible minorities), why do black people deserve special treatment on my dime?
Care to answer any of those.

For once and for all, I'm not racist. A racist hates people on the basis of racial difference. A racialist recognizes the racial differences between people based on social class and culture structures and strives to seek pacifist ways to co-exist.

Good now that that's cleared up, on to your questions. Blacks are the most analysed ethnic/racial minority in human history. The legacy of slavery/segregation/Aparteid sets them apart as a people in ways other ethnicities have been spared. I study sociology/anthropology at university and you know what new immigrants were told when they came to North America 50, 100 years ago? They're unwantables like our blacks. It's easy for a new immigrant from Asia to come here now and say the 'black problem' shouldn't be my concern but how easily we forget the collective build-up of North America was significantly through black labour and Native expropiation.

Neither myself nor the TDSB, is claiming that Blacks are more important than other minorities (though within the next decade South/East Asians will in fact be the majority here NOT Blacks or whites). What we're saying is that the levels of competition in pluralist schools is understandably beyond what someone with social problems at home/ learning disabilities/ adverse peer pressure and media protrayals, can manage. Taking away racism/inferiority to Eurasians from the equation, doesn't breed racists but rather lifts mental blockages to success. Surely you realize these kids will go onto polyethnic universities and workplaces where they will assimilate. There's no president stating that blacks cannot or should not assimilate with others.

About other ethnicities not having special schools, where have you been, under a rock? Practically every ethnic group in the city has ethno-specific community schools where PS/K to probably grade six-aged kids learn specific linguistic, religious and cultural practices they'd never otherwise see in pluralist. Apart from Jamaicans, I can't really say other black nationalities have an ethnic enclave distinctly their's in the vein of Little Italy, Gerrard India Bazaar or several Chinatowns. That the black community needs the system to do it is sad, but then again at least it'll give blacks something better to aspire to instead of be the next rapper/basketballer.

Why so concerned about what your tax dollars goes towards? Do you not feel socially obligated to assist your fellow citizens in any way you can? It's ironic you called me a bigot when it's you demonstrating a lack of empathy for black causes, one humanity right ?

There was nothing 'erroroneously' (sic) attributed to you...sometimes the truth hurts..get over it.

The only truth is that I care too much about my fellow humanity, that I'd waste my time trying to convince you, whose obviously closed off to rationality or difference of opinion, to give a flying you-know-what about blacks. Ever heard of Tu-Quo? That's you in a nutshell.

 

[TKTKTK]

Apart from Jamaicans, I can't really say other black nationalities have an ethnic enclave distinctly their's in the vein of Little Italy, Gerrard India Bazaar or several Chinatowns..

Rexdale, Jane & Finch (though there's no snappy name), spots of Scarborough (again, no real names). There's at least a few, plus two small Ontarian cities that are considered historic settlement areas; Priceville and Shanty Bay.

 

[I-Z1]

doesn't mean I'm not aware how some people can and are hateful towards black progress

Are you aware that projecting your thoughts onto others, as if it were theirs, only makes you look more like a bigot?

For once and for all, I'm not racist

BAsed on almost every post you've made, I'd have to disagree, you'rea a racist, you hate all non black, you've made this very clear.

Blacks are the most analysed ethnic/racial minority in human history.

Again, ancedotal evidence is meaningless, please back your statements up.

I study sociology/anthropology at university and you know what new immigrants were told when they came to North America 50, 100 years ago?

Yes, I do...and it continues to this day....but it's not just black people, like you would have us believe....that's were you reveal your bigotry.

we forget the collective build-up of North America was significantly through black labour and Native expropiation.

You don't speak for me.
I have not forgotten how the natives were treated after emancipation...apparently you have though. Natives were taken as slaves, by the white mand AND the newly free black man....black slave traders were very common back then....seems you have forgotten this part of your heritage..yet not surprising.

There's no president stating that blacks cannot or should not assimilate with others.

...other then the black community itself.

About other ethnicities not having special schools, where have you been, under a rock?

Instead of insulting, perhaps a citation is needed here You don't seem to share the same reality as the rest of society.

Why so concerned about what your tax dollars goes towards?

Are you serious? You need a reality check.

The only truth is that I care too much about my fellow humanity, that I'd waste my time trying to convince you, whose obviously closed off to rationality or difference of opinion, to give a flying you-know-what about blacks. Ever heard of Tu-Quo? That's you in a nutshell.

Are personal and ad-hominem attacks the only way you can 'make your point"? You've done a really poor job of it, you've come across as a blathering racist fool only to make the rest of your community look worse. Bravo.

MLK was a great man, you, are an idiot.

 

[Mystic Point]

what's next...
a school for muslims students only, or oriental students, what about a school for gay students only... or everyone else who is hard done by. I thought we already has this debate and it was thouroughly quashed.

There already is a school for Gay, Lesbian and Transgendered kids. Options are good. And people should have options. Especially when it comes to education.

 

[theowne]

Options aren't good when it comes to this situation. If you have race-focused schools then all the muslim immigrants will just go to the muslim schools, the chinese immigrants to the chinese schools.....and while it may seem beneficial short-term, I don't think that it is the direction that we should be going for.....Toronto should be a multi-cultural city, and never a place where different groups come to settle in and live in their own isolated corners.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

it is rarely the choice or option of the student to attend a school. parents may have good intentions but they don't always know what's best. this is a main reason why i'm against such a school.

 

[Mystic Point]

Options aren't good when it comes to this situation. If you have race-focused schools then all the muslim immigrants will just go to the muslim schools, the chinese immigrants to the chinese schools.....and while it may seem beneficial short-term, I don't think that it is the direction that we should be going for.....Toronto should be a multi-cultural city, and never a place where different groups come to settle in and live in their own isolated corners.

Maybe I missed something, but, traveling around the city, I get the impression people do live in their own isolated corners. The city neighborhoods are clearly divided along racial ethnic lines. i.e. Vast parts of Scarboro are entirely Aisan. Most of Rexdale is Black etc etc.

For a lot people, myself included, this city is seen as the worst example of a " fractured ethnic mosaic. " It's just one Ghetto after another, with little interaction between one ethnic minority group and another, not to mention any interaction with Toronto's mostly wealthy White Ruling Class.

 

[adma]

To be honest, is there *any* city out there with significant suburban ethnic blocs that's any different in that regard?

 

[theman23]

Maybe I missed something, but, traveling around the city, I get the impression people do live in their own isolated corners. The city neighborhoods are clearly divided along racial ethnic lines. i.e. Vast parts of Scarboro are entirely Aisan. Most of Rexdale is Black etc etc.

For a lot people, myself included, this city is seen as the worst example of a " fractured ethnic mosaic. " It's just one Ghetto after another, with little interaction between one ethnic minority group and another, not to mention any interaction with Toronto's mostly wealthy White Ruling Class.

A large part Rexdale may be black, but there are also many south asians and other recent immigrants. These "ghettos" might have higher than average representation of certain ethnic groups, but they are not as homogenous as you think they are- and certainly not to the point where people of different races hardly interact with one another. But this is why its so important that we don't segregate our schools- for many children, school is the only time they have an opportunity to interact with children of other ethnic backgrounds.

 

[vicente]

We have to teach an Afrocentric curriculum to Black students because Africa is the Black continent. That's where all the Black people come from and we have to give them a sense of racial pride. We can't whitewash them and deny them their own heritage. Africa is their homeland.

We have to teach an Asian-centric curriculum to Asian students because Asia is the Asian continent. That's where all the Black people come from and we have to give them a sense of racial pride. We can't whitewash them and deny them their own heritage. Asia is their homeland.

We have to teach a Southasian-centric curriculum to Brown students because Southasia is the Brown continent. That's where all the Brown people come from a and we have to give them a sense of racial pride. We can't whitewash them and deny them their own heritage. Southasia is their homeland.

We have to teach a Eurocentric curriculum to White students because Europe is the White continent. That's where all the White people come from and we have to give them a sense of .... oops! Ethnic pride is great, you have to be proud of your roots, unless you're white because then you're personally responsible for colonialism and discrimination. Europe is their homeland, but meh, it doesn't really matter.

(this is all sarcasm, I'm one of those who believe that there is only one race -- the human race. There are no ideas, cultures, traditions, or ideologies that are the property of one ethnic group or another. Teaching Black students an Afrocentric curriculum will only reinforce distinctions between them and people who aren't Black)

 

[DENTROBATE54]

The cirricula will be exactly the same as any other TDSB-run instituition. The noted difference is that africentric diaspora would periodically be interwoven into class discussions, interpretation of materials, etc. It's a loaded assumption that separation breeds hate. If anything it'll breed tolerance because critical distance from the source of a problem (in this case, mental roadblocks to academic success, which may be linked to being lost-in-the-shuffle of polyethnic schools) rehabilitates the underachievers in our society to utilize education to get ahead, not falling into stereotypical pitfalls. If segregation doesn't exist in public schools, fine, but stats show economic disparity does affect blacks in ways the majority of society doesn't. If we're really to embrace the notion that education is the great equalizer, we must ensure more blacks at least have the qualifications to get a foot in the door.

Allowing underachievers to continually underachieve and become the posterchildren of a whole racial group is wrong and, what despite prior attempts by the TDSB to correct this, has occured. I honestly have faith it'll validate blacks place in society for the better, not worse, garner more visibility and respect. We shouldn't be quick to assume this will lead to a slippery slope of multicultural schools absolving into homogeneous ones, but see this as a precedent for human rights, that no one group whom struggles to compete with the rest of us will be left behind .

 

[Admiral Beez]

Well, the decision has been made. Let's see how they execute it, and then review the performance of the program in five years or so. Regardless of what I think of the specifics of the program, I do think it's great that the community and the Tedious Bee realize that there is a problem with this specific demographic, and is now trying to address it.

Though, I wish they'd dig a bit deeper into the community to determine if its Caribbean blacks rather than all blacks, or if it's Jamaican-origin blacks rather than Trinidadian blacks, etc., as this gives more info to the process, and allows a greater concentration of effort where it's most needed.

When I saw the community meetings on this topic on the news, I was struck by the near complete lack of adult men in the crowds. There were women clapping and shouting and cheering, but where were the men? At my childrens' inner city school near St. Jamestown, whenever there is a parent-teacher event in the auditorium, there is always a large group of men, almost half. Without the strong involvement, mentorship and leadership of men in their lives, young males of all colours and backgrounds stand a greater chance of falling through the cracks, and thus needing such government intervention.

 

[rpgr]

The cirricula will be exactly the same as any other TDSB-run instituition. The noted difference is that africentric diaspora would periodically be interwoven into class discussions, interpretation of materials, etc. It's a loaded assumption that separation breeds hate. If anything it'll breed tolerance because critical distance from the source of a problem (in this case, mental roadblocks to academic success, which may be linked to being lost-in-the-shuffle of polyethnic schools) rehabilitates the underachievers in our society to utilize education to get ahead, not falling into stereotypical pitfalls. If segregation doesn't exist in public schools, fine, but stats show economic disparity does affect blacks in ways the majority of society doesn't. If we're really to embrace the notion that education is the great equalizer, we must ensure more blacks at least have the qualifications to get a foot in the door.

Allowing underachievers to continually underachieve and become the posterchildren of a whole racial group is wrong and, what despite prior attempts by the TDSB to correct this, has occured. I honestly have faith it'll validate blacks place in society for the better, not worse, garner more visibility and respect. We shouldn't be quick to assume this will lead to a slippery slope of multicultural schools absolving into homogeneous ones, but see this as a precedent for human rights, that no one group whom struggles to compete with the rest of us will be left behind .

Nobody is saying seperation breeds hate.

The argument was and continues to be that the school will just be a dumping grounds. I.E. it won't change a damn thing.

This is evident in how people will view blacks on resumes. Even a highly educated white guy will be overlooked if he attended a bad reputation school or lives in a bad reputation area. Likewise a mediocre black guy that grew up in a well to do neighbourhood will be looked upon highly.

It has less to do with race than it has to do with poverty/area a person grows up in. It's less a race issue than a Caste system (like in India).

Drawing the issue by race when it is not race only further hides the issue, like a doctor giving the wrong diagnosis. Just the same the "medication" being given may only exasperate the problem to an even worst degree.

The only reason why "race" comes into it is that a disproportionate number of the poor is black but that is merely a symptom, not the cause.

The real problem won't be fixed until the gap between rich and poor shrinks and that zoning includes many more mixed neighborhoods.