[theowne]

My next post will demonstrate the number of black organizations that have rallied around the notion of black-focused schools, such that it's not a case of white elites dictating how blacks should be schooled but rather an outcry for social justice and equitable treatment from these communities themselves.

How is separating black students social justice or equitable treatment?

If black kids are struggling, why not just create schools for struggling students?

Why does the "black school" term have to come into this?

Separation just leads to ignorance, suspicion, etc. Imagine if we had schools where everyone's kids grew up together, except for the "black school" around the corner. Can't you see what kind of effect this could have?

 

[DENTROBATE54]

Usually, I'm against these things, but you need to think about it in context. If the area has pervalent incidents of racial prejudice and hate crimes, Black-only schools could assure a safe learning environment. I'm not promoting segregation, just trying to understand why the greater black community would support this. Denying these kids access to OSSD and acceptance to universities (where they will interact with other groups), just because some people will be offended by the notion of africentric schools is illogical.

Why punish the student? The Right to Learn for these kids is literally the Right to Live. If non-blacks intensify racist practices against blacks because of this, that only goes to show these prejudices are only skin-deep and can surface at any time. Black teens with learning disabilities should not be the victims of others ignorance and narrow-mindedness.

 

[lordmandeep]

the only problem I have is what are not these issues of concern in other ethnic groups...

clearly shows there is something wrong going on...

 

[I-Z1]

If the area has pervalent incidents of racial prejudice and hate crimes, Black-only schools could assure a safe learning environment.

by keeping those perpetuating the hate crimes in one school? That's rather racist of you, isn't it?

If non-blacks intensify racist practices against blacks because of this, that only goes to show these prejudices are only skin-deep and can surface at any time.

...but, since the reverse is more likely to happen, your point is moot.

 

[Disparishun]

I still don't understand why we're using the term Africentric. Africa is a lot more than just sub-Saharan Black Africans, and includes millions of Arabs in from Morocco to Egypt, plus over four million Whites, two million Indo-Asians and over one-hundred thousand Jews in South Africa. Africa is not all Black.

... not just Arabs from North Africa, of course. Millions from ethnic minorities, there, too, including Berbers and Jews, for whom an "Afro-centric" school -- entirely privately-funded, of course, since this is Ontario -- already exists. And which many non-"African" children attend whose parents gladly have them participate in the Afrocentric curriculum.

the only problem I have is what are not these issues of concern in other ethnic groups...

To be fair, there are lots of issues of concern among lots of ethnic groups re: schooling. That there are thousands of kids whose parents pay taxes to fund public/Catholic schools, but nonetheless fork out much more to pay for unfunded ethnic-minority heritage day schools, suggests that this is something which extends far beyond the community of people who identify as Black or as African-Canadian.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

To be fair, there are lots of issues of concern among lots of ethnic groups re: schooling. That there are thousands of kids whose parents pay taxes to fund public/Catholic schools, but nonetheless fork out much more to pay for unfunded ethnic-minority heritage day schools, suggests that this is something which extends far beyond the community of people who identify as Black or as African-Canadian.

And those ethnic communities apparently may have the expendible income to finance heritage day schools on their own. Since Scatscan indicates black/Afro-Canadians are predominantly at or below the poverty line, it is highly unlikely this community can follow suit and self-sufficiently fund these schools themselves. This is why the media coverage exists. If funding was going on quietly, there'd be no story. 200, 000+ black students Toronto wide couldn't possibly all enrol, only the at-risk fringe. Why everyone's making it appear like blacks don't want to integrate I don't know, when it's seemingly other groups that have come here who insulate themselves away from Canadiana within very exclusive, homogenous ethnic enclaves.

Afro/Africentric= black-focused, not limited to Africa but the Americas as well .

 

[Disparishun]

And those ethnic communities apparently may have the expendible income to finance heritage day schools on their own.

No, that's groupthink. What you mean is that members of those ethnic communities do.

Those who don't, and those who aren't able to be subsidised by communal subsidy programmes set up for just that purpose, are obviously left out in the cold.

In other words, not everyone gets to send their kids to somewhere "considered a black school" like Donna Bailey Nurse does.

That many do dig deep and find the money nonetheless, points to the importance people attach to this issue. Of course, if it's easier for you to believe that other ethnic groups are homogeneous blocs made up of Misters Moneybags (see below), then you are free to go on inhabiting that particular fantasy.

This is why the media coverage exists. If funding was going on quietly, there'd be no story.

Well, yeah. That's the point.

Why everyone's making it appear like blacks don't want to integrate I don't know, when it's seemingly other groups that have come here who insulate themselves away from Canadiana within very exclusive, homogenous ethnic enclaves.

Hey, aren't you the one who just get through calling everyone and their uncle a racist? But, by all means, do tell the whole story rather than veiled allusions to it. Which are the groups that have come here and who insulate themselves away from Canadiana within very exclusive, homogenous ethnic enclaves? I have not met any, so I am awfully curious to discover who these groups are that you are so upset about.

Afro/Africentric= black-focused, not limited to Africa but the Americas as well .

I don't understand. Why would Afro/Africentric = black-focused?

 

[DENTROBATE54]

No, that's groupthink. What you mean is that members of those ethnic communities do.

That many do dig deep and find the money nonetheless, points to the importance people attach to this issue. Of course, if it's easier for you to believe that other ethnic groups are homogeneous blocs made up of Misters Moneybags (see below), then you are free to go on inhabiting that particular fantasy.

Well if I gave you that impression I apologize. I go by ethnographic statistics collected by the gov't and daily observation of various communities and their interactions. I'd love to believe the real world is as tolerant and accepting as our UT community, but then of course we have the anonymity of the internet to sheild us from ad hominen discrimination. Marginalized teens in a visible vulnerability aren't so lucky. If my personal first-hand experience of a group (I won't name names) was that "you can visit and buy our goods but then leave," then is it at all so surprising I'd assume some people are insular while others are more welcoming? Gang/thug life isn't ingrained, it's learned, as retalliation for being society's rejects and cast-offs. These are the individuals we're trying to reach out to and save here.

Hey, aren't you the one who just get through calling everyone and their uncle a racist? But, by all means, do tell the whole story rather than veiled allusions to it. Which are the groups that have come here and who insulate themselves away from Canadiana within very exclusive, homogenous ethnic enclaves? I have not met any, so I am awfully curious to discover who these groups are that you are so upset about.

I only referred to one poster as such after he made a series of derrogatory and offensive remarks about myself and blacks in general. No groups upset me and I'll leave it at that since everything I say here now somehow gets twisted. Ethnic enclaves are real, ethnic heritage day schools are real, ethnic goods/food markets are real, ethnic media outlets are real. It's all out there throughout the GTA in plain, unfiltered sight. Please don't trivilalize my point-of-view.

I don't understand. Why would Afro/Africentric = black-focused

[prefix] Afro/Afri-: of or pretaining to people of colour, (US) Blacks; people of African descent or origin
[suffix] -centric: having a specified object at the centre, or as the focus of attention

 

[unimaginative2]

200, 000+ black students Toronto wide

There are most assuredly not 200,000 black students Toronto-wide. There are about 200,000 black residents in total. Based on Toronto's overall age demographics from Statscan, that would mean around 12,000 black teenagers in the city.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

There are most assuredly not 200,000 black students Toronto-wide. There are about 200,000 black residents in total. Based on Toronto's overall age demographics from Statscan, that would mean around 12,000 black teenagers in the city.

Which would mean they're even more marginalized than I thought. Lesser numbers means less representation of their values, histories, cultures in the pluralist school cirricula. It's not enough to set aside special days to recognize X minority group then return to business-as-usual eurocentricism. To truly be inclusive of all, public schools must interweave multicultural perspectives into class dialouges as much as possible.

 

[I-Z1]

Which would mean they're even more marginalized than I thought.

Is this an admission that you don't actually research anything, but simply make up numbers in order to further your racist agenda?

Lesser numbers means less representation of their values, histories, cultures in the pluralist school cirricula.

Absolutely not, it means that the curriculum is representative of the population....but you have a problem with that because you believe that you deserve more than anyone else, simply due to skin colour....it's one of the most disgusting forms of racism that you love to perpetuate.

 

[nfitz]

I'm really not understanding the reaction.

The TDSB already operates First Nation-focused schools. And this hasn't created any reaction I've ever seen. But when Black-focused schools are mentioned, everyone freaks out.

What's the difference?

 

[DENTROBATE54]

The difference is, some people will always want to keep blacks where they are in society, with no chance at social mobility and/or integration. It is only when blacks decide to not put up with the ostracization anymore, and ensure future generations won't suffer the same systematic stigma they felt, that outsiders throw their hands upto the sky and show their true ignorance about real black issues. If there wasn't a correlation between blacks, underachievers/dropouts and gang/criminal elements (or so sociologists and the media would like you to believe) then yes, there'd be no need for this school. But it's not other groups being demonized by society, its mainly blacks, and no matter how many good, law-abiding citizens outnumber the fringe criminals, it's that negative connotation that won't die.

People just like to rally around these hot-button issues without a real scope of how and whom these policies are really affecting, like a Liberal Arts major asserting their 'higher' moral/ethical stance on the uncouth masses. Let's face it, seriously, every possible minority group you can think of has some form of social (or even gov't) backing. This is no more a bleed on the system then not douling out welfare checks, Habitats for Humanity and prison living later on. Who knows, these urban fringe may actually become employable now, paying taxes all their own benefiting Canadians of all backgrounds. Those with the narrow funnel analysis that africentricism is a backwards step probably never faced discrimination a day of their lives, and need not the morale/esteem boost this school will likely attribute wanton teens.

 

[EnviroTO]

I'm really not understanding the reaction.

The TDSB already operates First Nation-focused schools. And this hasn't created any reaction I've ever seen. But when Black-focused schools are mentioned, everyone freaks out.

What's the difference?

They shouldn't be running First Nation focused schools either... it is the same thing. For some reason people realize that locating all the housing projects in the same place was a failed plan which caused problems, that segregation caused problems, but for some stupid reason we still have reserves and are creating a black-focused school. It makes no sense. I can't wait till my son gets to school age... if he ever gets a bad grade or finds himself in detention I will scream at the principal that it is the school boards fault and that my Welsh-Vietnamese child needs Welsh-Viet role models and that not enough Welsh-Viet curriculum is being taught.

This school plan is a dumb idea. It says blacks can't integrate and learn in a multi-cultural environment which is totally false. It says skin pigmentation should be a factor in curriculum design. People who are only partially sold on he idea are accepting it with the thought "something had to be done" but the reality is that "doing something" is worse than "doing nothing" when the something you are doing is the opposite direction to solving the problem. Racism and divisions based on wealth are not solved by isolating, they are solved by coming together. There is no black math, black English, black French, black chemistry, black physics, and black economics so creating a black-focused school is pointless if the only difference is the skin pigmentation of other students and staff, a less classical music class, and a replacement of the Canadian history course with an African history course. I assume it would be a course replacement where Canadian history is dropped in favour of African history because all the students are headed for straight "A"s if they are learning black Canadian history (i.e. memorize the black Canadian prime ministers in order, memorize the names of the black explorers which reached Canada, memorize the native Canadian tribes which were black, etc.).

 

[nfitz]

They shouldn't be running First Nation focused schools either... it is the same thing.

Yet we don't have politicians, the media, and bloggers going on about the TDSBs first nations schools, despite that they have been there for years.

So a conclusion that could lead to, is that the outcry about this new schools is systemic bigotry, and everyone fighting so hard against it must be bigots!