News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 02, 2020
A Message to Our Readers
 9.4K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
EarthCam Time-Lapse Documents Rafael Viñoly-Designed New Stanford Hospital Construction
 40K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
Resort Town
 5.3K     0 

GraphicMatt said:
There's a false equivalency at work with this issue, and lots of others, that drives me crazy. It goes like this: "We need to show people both sides." There seems to be this idea that there are two sides to every issue and that they're both equally grounded in truth.

This is rarely the case. Research, logic, reasoning, etc. can absolutely tilt the scales toward 'one side' and make alternatives irrelevant. It's not a question of bias.
Click to expand...

Yes, exactly. I read things like this and despair for the future. I really wish there were more people with backgrounds in science involved in government.

I don't think it's even a matter of 'sides'. It is not an either-or scenario -- the two shouldn't be compared at all. There is no "believing" in evolution. It is just the best explanation we have so far, given our observations. If a better one comes along evolution WILL be kicked to the curb like all old outdated models.

Whereas "God did it" is purely a religious idea -- to pass it off as science or treat it as an alternative to scientific theory is completely disingenuous. You just cannot call evolution a belief, or creationism a scientific theory, and somehow equate the two in any way at all.

Of course it is possible for scientists to believe in a creator. There is much about the universe that science cannot explain. But that is a completely separate issue. :)
 
There are novel solutions around this kind of crap. Let the kids enter standardized science tests. When they perform dismally against kids who don't religion for science the religious nutjobs will be forced to choose between preparing the next generation for economic success or letting the country go down the drain while propagating their beliefs through the public school system.

This really is ridiculous. Thankfully, our Catholic system does no such thing. Bu it is disconcerting that there are parents out there who still want their kids to get this kind of an education. I once volunteered to help organize a science fair at a Christian school in my neighbourhood (I was friends with the parent of a student there and he asked for help). The 'science' projects blew my mind. The majority of them were poster boards attempting to disprove evolutionary theory or the age of the Earth, etc. It reminded me of the bizarro news you get of things like Iran holding a conference on the Holocaust.

When it comes to the US religious right though, they are a special breed. I say if they want to churn out dullards so be it. Let's just make sure we educate our kids well enough to take jobs and investment away from them.
 
Why prepare the next generation when the rapture is only a few years away?
 
i wonder what rapture believing does to a person's respect for the environment? i also wonder how many rapture believers for the 2012 apocalypse are gonna rack up huge debt because they believe they won't have to pay it back?
 
Wait a minute, isn't Dec. 21st 2012 the Mayan end of the world (so-called, since I don't believe even the Mayans consider the world to end with the calendar) rather than the Christian one? The Rapture is always around the corner, Jack and Rexella Van Impe told me so! :rolleyes:

I'm just glad we have no problems teaching evolution in our schools and don't have to give any credence to unscientific ideas when teaching science. I can't imagine teaching in an environment where such simple-minded concepts are given such weight.
 
Last edited:
a few generations of intellectual neglect and it can happen here too. all it takes is big cutbacks to education to raise a population with a horrible understanding of the world around it. then that population will demand its horrible understanding of the world be taught in schools to its children. ignorance of the world around you makes you even more susceptible to believing all kinds of strange things.
 
kEiThZ said:
There are novel solutions around this kind of crap. Let the kids enter standardized science tests. When they perform dismally against kids who don't religion for science the religious nutjobs will be forced to choose between preparing the next generation for economic success or letting the country go down the drain while propagating their beliefs through the public school system...When it comes to the US religious right though, they are a special breed. I say if they want to churn out dullards so be it. Let's just make sure we educate our kids well enough to take jobs and investment away from them.
Click to expand...

Yup, that's all the needs to be said in this thread. I agree wholeheartedly and that's why I can sleep easier at night. Since our society values professions that are grounded in scientific empiricism much more highly than religious dogma, we can pretty much consign the fundamentalists to [mostly] doing jobs that don't allow them that much influence. I remember how there used to be a clique of hardcore Christians in my high school, and now they all work at Bell Mobility selling cell phones or jewellery at Walmart or other McJobs like that.
 
Keithz/Hipster

Except that the same "dullards" have the right to vote - and will likely elect representatives/inflammatory figures that are actively hostile to nations with liberal values, jobs or no jobs. Hoping that socioeconomic deadend will somehow contain their radicalism to the private realm might not be a wise course of action afterall.

AoD
 
Geeky, what can we do? We can't take away their right to vote and we can't prohibit them from practicing their faith. Having them pariah themselves in our socio-economic system might be the best medicine.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Keithz/Hipster

Except that the same "dullards" have the right to vote - and will likely elect representatives/inflammatory figures that are actively hostile to nations with liberal values, jobs or no jobs. Hoping that socioeconomic deadend will somehow contain their radicalism to the private realm might not be a wise course of action afterall.

AoD
Click to expand...

The key is to present an alternative. It has to be demonstrated that a solid education in things other than religious dogma will pay off in a solid standard of living. That's what will make this kind of fundamentalism less attractive. Heck, we are desperately trying to do the same thing in Afghanistan and Pakistan to discourage Islamic Fundamentalism. Education and better paying jobs. It works. Over there, it's of course a question of resources...

When it comes to the home front, it's pretty obvious that a lot of our Christian fundamentalists take up jobs that require no real science based education: ie construction trades, insurance/finance/real estate, social sector/educational work and of course working as ministers. The way to diminish their power is to make entry into those fields require higher standards of education. Require a university degree to get certification as an insurance professional. Require stringent education for ministers, regardless of faith. Catholicism has its faults but one of its greatest strengths is that Catholic priests undergo a strenuous and long educational process that includes significant time studying all the other major faiths and major Christian denominations. That's something I think should be a requirement for all clergy. Imagine what would happen if an Imam had to spend half a year studying Judaism, and working with Rabbis.

Anyway, by and large, Christian fundamentalism is mostly an American problem. And even in the US we should be mindful that not all who vote Republican are Christian fundamentalists. Not even all those bible thumpers who ascribe to conservative social values are necessarily people who reject science. We really are talking about a minority here. It maybe a sizeable minority but it is still a minority.
 
Catholicism has its faults but one of its greatest strengths is that Catholic priests undergo a strenuous and long educational process that includes significant time studying all the other major faiths and major Christian denominations
Click to expand...

...and young boys!
 
digi said:
...and young boys!
Click to expand...

I did say it had its faults. But try comparing the sermons of a Catholic priest to some of the Imams or megachurch preachers in the GTA. It's quite evident the difference an education makes.
 
kEiThZ said:
I did say it had its faults. But try comparing the sermons of a Catholic priest to some of the Imams or megachurch preachers in the GTA. It's quite evident the difference an education makes.
Click to expand...

so it's okay to criticize a religion as long as it's not your own? :p
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top