[YEG imagineer]

When snow removal is done way better than Edmonton.

We should be aiming to be as good or better than Montreal. Yes may involve a bit more taxes but I believe the majority of residents would be supportive if they saw this in action in a timely manner.

 

[an_edmontonian]

When snow removal is done way better than Edmonton.

We should be aiming to be as good or better than Montreal. Yes may involve a bit more taxes but I believe the majority of residents would be supportive if they saw this in action in a timely manner.

Edmonton does not have a tax base large enough to support this level of service for how much road way we have.

 

[TAS]

Edmonton does not have a tax base large enough to support this level of service for how much road way we have.

Not Just Bikes released a good video this week on the bike lane removal on three streets in Toronto by Ford government.

In video, he says bike lanes make up a small percentage of Toronto's vehicle road network of about 6,000 km.

Knowing that Edmonton has 11,000+ km of roadways and growing I thought the Toronto number has to be a mistake - given their population is 4x ours.

Nope! Not wrong. According to this, Toronto has 5,600km or streets.

Complete Streets Overview

“Complete streets” are streets that are designed to be safe for all users: people who walk, bicycle, take transit or drive, and people of varying ages and levels of ability. They also consider other uses like sidewalk cafés, street furniture, street trees, utilities, and stormwater management.

www.toronto.ca

So many roads here - so expensive for our city.

 

[dkazzed]

I think that's ~11,000 lane-km of roads in Edmonton vs. 5,600 km of roads.

https://pub-edmonton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=73869

But looking at this:

2018 Update to the Road Classification System

In the Road Classification System Update, dated March 26, 2018 the Transportation Services Division recommended that the City of Toronto Road Classification System be updated by incorporating the changes contained in Appendix 2 entitled Road Classification Update – Table of Changes. The table...

www.toronto.ca

Assuming 6 lanes on major arterials and expressways, 4 lanes on minor arterials and collectors, and 2 lanes on local roads, Toronto has 16,722 lane-km of roads. So roughly 50% extra lane-km despite having 400% more population.

Then to repave just 2.5% of Edmonton's road lanes comes in at a cost of $275-550 million each year (based on $1 million to $2 million for lane km). The average age of pavement in Edmonton is 38 years vs. the typical useful life expectency of 28 years for asphalt. Total city tax revenue is $3 billion. We don't have the tax base to lower the average age of pavement to reasonable levels. "But gas taxes" The Province of Alberta collects about $1.2 billion a year in gas taxes, but the province has its own 64,000 road lane of km to maintain. Most of it in rural areas of course. And drivers cite gas taxes and registration as the reason bikes shouldn't be allowed on roads, as if gas taxes cover even half of road maintenance costs.

 

[TAS]

I think that's ~11,000 lane-km of roads in Edmonton vs. 5,600 km of roads.

https://pub-edmonton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=73869

But looking at this:

2018 Update to the Road Classification System

In the Road Classification System Update, dated March 26, 2018 the Transportation Services Division recommended that the City of Toronto Road Classification System be updated by incorporating the changes contained in Appendix 2 entitled Road Classification Update – Table of Changes. The table...

www.toronto.ca

Assuming 6 lanes on major arterials and expressways, 4 lanes on minor arterials and collectors, and 2 lanes on local roads, Toronto has 16,722 lane-km of roads. So roughly 50% extra lane-km despite having 400% more population.

Then to repave just 2.5% of Edmonton's road lanes comes in at a cost of $275-550 million each year (based on $1 million to $2 million for lane km). The average age of pavement in Edmonton is 38 years vs. the typical useful life expectency of 28 years for asphalt. Total city tax revenue is $3 billion. We don't have the tax base to lower the average age of pavement to reasonable levels. "But gas taxes" The Province of Alberta collects about $1.2 billion a year in gas taxes, but the province has its own 64,000 road lane of km to maintain. Most of it in rural areas of course. And drivers cite gas taxes and registration as the reason bikes shouldn't be allowed on roads, as if gas taxes cover even half of road maintenance costs.

Thanks - that makes sense.

 

[TAS]

This is an interesting blog on cost of Edmonton's roads I found with some interesting numbers from city - this is from 2020 when at that time value of all our roads was $9.6 billion. Since then, we've had mega projects like $1 billion Yellowhead project plus Terwillegar and 50th street.

It also includes how many kms of arterial, collector and local roads we have.

Edmonton Land Use: The Cost of Roads — Matthew Dance

“…if we think of space as that which allows movement, then place is pause; each pause in movement makes it possible for location to be transformed into place” Tuan, 1977 Roads are a vital component to cities. They allow people to move through the city and also support the movement of goods and s

www.matthewdance.ca

 

[mcr]

When snow removal is done way better than Edmonton.

We should be aiming to be as good or better than Montreal. Yes may involve a bit more taxes but I believe the majority of residents would be supportive if they saw this in action in a timely manner.

I think "a bit more taxes" is severely under estimating the cost. Just on the hard numbers, Montreal approaches $200M in snow removal, Edmonton is $66M. Our tax base can't support it without massive jumps.

 

[dkazzed]

Edmonton came out strong with the snow clearing this year as if the snow levels would be the same as what we've experienced the last few years and unfortunately we're just being pummelled with snow event after snow event. It's been a frustrating winter biking experience so far but the city is far from the one to blame for this one. I might flag that some routes like Hermitage have not been cleared and are treacherous right now, just as a friendly reminder, but I've adapted for the time being with alternate routes.

 

[AJo]

I think "a bit more taxes" is severely under estimating the cost. Just on the hard numbers, Montreal approaches $200M in snow removal, Edmonton is $66M. Our tax base can't support it without massive jumps.

hmmm, assuming that the snow removal budgets are just for the cities themselves and not the greater metropolitan areas, that means that Montreal is spending $112 per capita for snow removal and Edmonton is spending $61 per capita. That's quite the property tax jump.

 

[ntt1]

Edmonton came out strong with the snow clearing this year as if the snow levels would be the same as what we've experienced the last few years and unfortunately we're just being pummelled with snow event after snow event. It's been a frustrating winter biking experience so far but the city is far from the one to blame for this one. I might flag that some routes like Hermitage have not been cleared and are treacherous right now, just as a friendly reminder, but I've adapted for the time being with alternate routes.

Yup, it's been sidewalk riding for me whenever the adjacent MUPs are impassable.

It's extremely frustrating just how piecemeal some of the clearing of paths are, though. I wish they'd put MUPs on their own clearing route, rather than having them combined with all the sidewalks in a given area, though.

Perhaps some kind of incentive to have commercial properties clear city-owned sidewalks near their properties could be a consideration, too. There'll be portions of paths and sidewalks obviously cleared by snow-clearing equipment that just stops at a certain point, and the rest takes several days more to clear.

 

[dkazzed]

I've been finding some roads preferrable.

Would you like to be the keeper of the snow clearing map for the south side? I haven't finished populating the map yet but I'm hoping this will help people.

Edmonton Cycling Snow Clearing Map - Google My Maps

Edmonton Cycling Snow Clearing Map

www.google.com

Bright green = Safe with all tires
Yellowish green = Safe with proper tires
Yellow = City said they cleared it
Orange = Doable with proper tires, take it a bit slow
Red = Treacherous
Black = No data

 

[YEG imagineer]

This is Southgate bus at 3 pm. Not cleaned at all today. Anybody with mobility issues or wheelchair would not be able to pass. Why is this acceptable?

 

[thommyjo]

This is Southgate bus at 3 pm. Not cleaned at all today. Anybody with mobility issues or wheelchair would not be able to pass. Why is this acceptable?
View attachment 620543

What a joke. Should be heated honestly.

 

[kcantor]

^. ^^

I shovelled late morning and had as much again as in this photo by late afternoon.

 

[ntt1]

This is Southgate bus at 3 pm. Not cleaned at all today. Anybody with mobility issues or wheelchair would not be able to pass. Why is this acceptable?
View attachment 620543

And all the adjacent shared use paths around LRT stations will likely not even be touched until Friday (or the weekend), probably.

With snow accumulations of this extent the 3 day clearing policy for major walking paths is essentially a giant middle finger to anybody who doesn't get around by vehicle.