[Northern Light]

^The issue of over-paving is important. How much heat sink and water runoff could we address as we resize roads? Local (ie residential) roads need to be kept narrow to induce slower driving, many are wider than they need to be. Maybe that means more lawn, not less.

This point probably overlaps with Vision Zero, but the geen impacts of road construction ought to be part of that discussion, and vv.

- Paul

Many side streets, especially outside the core, can and should be narrowed. For sidestreets in the core, typical curb to curb is 7m; but in inner burbs its 11M+

That 'extra' space could be added back to front yards or could be served up as tree-lined boulevards.

Given a desire to shade the paved road to keep heat down, to provide good growing conditions for trees and avoid tree-building conflicts, I would generally lean to the boulevard option, but I think it can vary by situation.

The default here is to grass a boulevard, but that need not be the case.

There are any number of plants (many native) one could choose instead to go under the trees.

Sedges are an obviously choice, as they look similar to grass, but will cap out around a 20-30cm high; they will look after themselves, hold the ground and typically can handle a few people walking over them.

Pennsylvania Sedge (from https://www.tnnursery.net/pennsylvania-sedge-for-sale/)

Zigzag Goldenrod is a nice flower in the late summer but will hold the ground with greenery much of the rest of the time, and is a good performer in shade.

(from: http://afors.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/City-of-Saint-Paul-Rain-Gardens.pdf

Wild Geranium could be nice too, it gives spring flowers in May, but nice green ground cover thereafter.

Interesting to note the City of Saint Paul actually has a program where the City puts in natural, non-lawn boulevards on residential streets.

They have both sun and shade versions.

http://afors.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/City-of-Saint-Paul-Rain-Gardens.pdf

 

[gabe]

I see a lot of new home owners in my area hire landscapers. Which seems like a crazy waste of money to me. it would take about 15 minutes to cut both yards. But i guess if you can afford a house in Toronto these days, you can afford landscapers.

 

[Northern Light]

I see a lot of new home owners in my area hire landscapers. Which seems like a crazy waste of money to me. it would take about 15 minutes to cut both yards. But i guess if you can afford a house in Toronto these days, you can afford landscapers.

Landscapers to mow the lawn or to replace the lawn on one-time basis with a garden?

 

[crs1026]

I see a lot of new home owners in my area hire landscapers. Which seems like a crazy waste of money to me. it would take about 15 minutes to cut both yards. But i guess if you can afford a house in Toronto these days, you can afford landscapers.

Demographics. Lots of retirees who don't want the physical effort. Or may be splitting their time geographically (well, pre-covid, anyways) and don't want to come back from the cottage to mow the lawn.
Doesn't mean they do not invest their own time/labour in gardening etc, just means they don't want the heavy lifting or have the expertise (or licenses) to worry about fertilizers pesticides etc.
"Landscaping" does not mean a luxury contractor, either, although there are plenty of these. Many of the people you see are just a guy or two with a truck and a bigger mower. It's actually a growth area for self employment. Not necessarily more expensive than just hiring the kid down the street to do your lawn.... bigger and more productive machines, mobility, plus doing it all day one learns all the short cuts and labour savers. And one-stop shop where you can ask for aeration, whatever level of insect and weed care you need.
Compare to the cost of buying and maintaining a decent mower, a fertilizer spreader, etc a hired service is not that bad a deal. And a small fraction of the household upkeep budget.

- Paul

 

[gabe]

Landscapers to mow the lawn or to replace the lawn on one-time basis with a garden?

Mow the lawn, fertilize..etc They don't have gardens to tend to. At least not in the front.

Demographics. Lots of retirees who don't want the physical effort. Or may be splitting their time geographically (well, pre-covid, anyways) and don't want to come back from the cottage to mow the lawn.
Doesn't mean they do not invest their own time/labour in gardening etc, just means they don't want the heavy lifting or have the expertise (or licenses) to worry about fertilizers pesticides etc.
"Landscaping" does not mean a luxury contractor, either, although there are plenty of these. Many of the people you see are just a guy or two with a truck and a bigger mower. It's actually a growth area for self employment. Not necessarily more expensive than just hiring the kid down the street to do your lawn.... bigger and more productive machines, mobility, plus doing it all day one learns all the short cuts and labour savers. And one-stop shop where you can ask for aeration, whatever level of insect and weed care you need.
Compare to the cost of buying and maintaining a decent mower, a fertilizer spreader, etc a hired service is not that bad a deal. And a small fraction of the household upkeep budget.

- Paul

I understand retirees hiring people to cut grass and remove snow. But people with teenagers? These kids don't have to cut grass or shovel snow, they got it made. When i was a teen, i had to get up at 5 am to shovel the driveway for my parents so they could go to work. I grew up middle class, these newer home owners around me, i would consider them upper-middle class, they got nice high-end cars, and shop at McEwan's and Whole Foods.

I enjoy gardening, i love my flower beds, but i don't spend a lot time or money on my grass. Gas for my 10 year old Toro mower that's it. I don't pull weeds or fertilize or spray, or do lawn alteration, and my lawn still looks just as good as those lawns who hire people to maintain their grass.

I don't even rake leaves anymore. I just mulch them up in the fall and any left over i will mulch in the spring.

Scientists say don't rake leaves this fall. Here's why.

Scientists at the National Wildlife Foundation say that you shouldn’t feel obligated to rake up every last leaf in your yard this fall. Here are some tips on what you should do instead.

www.gardeningchannel.com

 

[Northern Light]

Mow the lawn, fertilize..etc They don't have gardens to tend to. At least not in the front.

As good a case as any to change out the lawn for a low-maintenance ground cover, and/or native forest habitat.

If one can't be bothered to mow the grass oneself; for whatever reason, it would seem wise to consider alternatives.

For what they likely spend on a pro-firm doing the mowing, in 2-3 years, they could have a pro-firm build a permanent, native forest garden, once.

(I should add, that depends on what they spend now and how established they want any vegetation to be; I know a forester who has a rosedale client that spends 100k a year to improve the valley slope they own!)

 

[Northern Light]

A natural gardener, having won her battle w/the City; now seeks to change things so others won't have to fight.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ecologist-new-bylaw-natural-garden-1.5752995

Needless to say I take a sympathetic view.

I would say, the suggestion in the story that the City could forcibly plant native species was a bit much.

I think this really is resolvable by making simple changes to the law.

- A garden must have some visible, defined border; this may be, but is not limited to rocks, logs, hardscaping, mowed grass, a uniform, short ground cover species, or annual flowers to illustrate that the space is maintained and care for.
- A garden may contain any range of plants at any height, subject to the requirement that they not lean over or obstruct the public right-of-way, not obstruct the view of a legal driveway, or a defined hardscape path to the front door of a home.
- Exception to the above that non-native, invasive plants and those designated as noxious weeds under provincial law must be removed if requested.
- No yard may include detritus (garbage, litter, discarded/abandoned objects or waste, excepting permissible compost/mulch and manure.)
- Any fence or structure shall be otherwise legal, and maintained in a state-of-good repair.

There we go. That should ensure that the City can go after someone who is neglecting their property and detracting from property values, while permitting people to do natural gardens, including tall grasses, and/or grow vegetables in their front yard if they see fit.

 

[lenaitch]

I agree. There is a lot of space between a 'natural garden' and a property left to go to weed (which it seems commercial vacant property owners are free to do). I imagine a 'Gladys Kravitz' or two in the neighbourhood making an anonymous complaint.

 

[crs1026]

^No goldenrod, right? (Blows nose)

I would want the garden edged, photos show it growing onto the sidewalk. Borders help the maintained, cared for look.

- Paul

PS - another requirement ought to be animal control. Bunnies are nice, but we are seeing a proliferation of rats, and even making property hospitable to raccoons and skunks might be unwise.

But lots of room for creativity.

 

[Northern Light]

^No goldenrod, right? (Blows nose)

Goldenrod isn't an allergen.

That's a common misconception.

Ragweed is though.

 

[crs1026]

^ I will confess that I don’t know enough to know the difference.

I just know that when I’m in sinus misery, yellow is not my favourite colour.

I would hope that a natural lawn would not make that worse. (Perhaps less grass might actually help things)

- Paul

 

[Northern Light]

^ I will confess that I don’t know enough to know the difference.

I just know that when I’m in sinus misery, yellow is not my favourite colour.

I would hope that a natural lawn would not make that worse. (Perhaps less grass might actually help things)

- Paul

Don’t blame goldenrod; allergies are ragweed’s fault

I have a ton of goldenrod on my property that flowers in late summer. I have seasonal allergies — how can I get rid of the goldenrod?

www.nny360.com

How to Identify and Avoid Ragweed

Common and giant ragweed are major sources of pollen in North America. See pictures of both of these plants, so you know what to watch out for.

www.thespruce.com

Stop blaming goldenrod for your allergies

Instead, the culprit is an innocuous-looking fellow called ragweed.

www.thestar.com

This is ragweed:

\

Really doesn't look much like goldenrod. Much less showy colouring; very different leaf structure.

But it often grows in the same places as goldenrod and can disappear amongst its showier neighbour.

Compare with Canada Goldenrod:

from: http://wisflora.herbarium.wisc.edu/taxa/index.php?taxon=5083