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And what would you propose oh wise one?
- Thread starter maestro
- Start date
And what would you propose oh wise one?
khris
Senior Member
Okay I don't mind these. They do look fairly slim, and at least they are not precast like many condos being built. However! I would like to see something better. A more interesting design. This is just too typical. I see in the document that there is an option B for a slab tower... maybe that would look better? Who knows.
As for being able to see them from Queen's Park and other places... who the hell cares!? We live in a city! You're supposed to see buildings in every direction you look.
As for being able to see them from Queen's Park and other places... who the hell cares!? We live in a city! You're supposed to see buildings in every direction you look.
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Superstar
Though I heartily disagree that a slab would work better here, I do agree with your second point about tower visibility. It's a joy to walk around the city and see your favorite towers poking up where you never thought they would be. I can't wait to see MLS towering over Telus from Front and University.
khris
Senior Member
If it were proposed to be right beside Queen's Park, I might feel different, but a building in the skyline... just seems silly to worry about such things.
Jayomatic
Active Member
I wish we would see some developers push the limits and use some new innovative 21st century cladding.
maestro
Senior Member
Yeah, its another Clewes box however, no reason to dwell on it. If you read the last page, this proposed is pretty much dust. Of course, the chances of something else besides just shorter Clewesian boxes are slim but one can dream.
Automation Gallery
Superstar
Come on lets have a better vision on design for this area.If your going to build a box or two then build something like this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisville_Museum_Plaza
isaidso
Senior Member
^^ That's certainly a great deal more interesting than what they're currently proposing. I'm with you on this one. Architecture should inspire. I don't expect every tower to be a master piece, but they need to try a little harder. It's starting to look like an assembly line of towers out there.
maestro
Senior Member
I find the museum tower just awful and there's little innovation involved to inspire. It's the typical grandiose landmark with absolutely no urban context . Louisville can keep it. Beware of Dubai imitators though!
marcus_a_j
Senior Member
The issue is not seeing it from Queen's Park, which would be quite the silly issue, but it's seeing these towers rise behind the Legislature Building at Queen's Park when looking north from University Ave. If you were to stand at Univ/College and look north, these buildings would affect the view terminus that is now Queen's Park. It's the same issue that some here have with ROCP, especially US I believe. ROCP destroys the view of Old City Hall as it bookends Bay St.
Louisville can keep it? Will they ever get it in the first place? Looks unlikely to me given the current financial situation.
Its Louisville location looks idiotic to me, looming over a quiet downtown and quieter riverbank. A complex like that would fit much better in a crowded urban context, and would have made for a fantastic idea at the Bay Adelaide Centre for example. Something like it on a smaller scale, more horizontal, could work well though, playing off Hazelton Lanes' lumpiness, and the podium of the Prince Arthur across the street, as well as that very brown low-slung condo whateveritscalled. I hope the City's call to redesign here brings an imaginative and striking solution: this is a spot that could do with a "landmark" design.
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Its Louisville location looks idiotic to me, looming over a quiet downtown and quieter riverbank. A complex like that would fit much better in a crowded urban context, and would have made for a fantastic idea at the Bay Adelaide Centre for example. Something like it on a smaller scale, more horizontal, could work well though, playing off Hazelton Lanes' lumpiness, and the podium of the Prince Arthur across the street, as well as that very brown low-slung condo whateveritscalled. I hope the City's call to redesign here brings an imaginative and striking solution: this is a spot that could do with a "landmark" design.
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Archivist
Senior Member
Automation, if it makes you feel any better, it is not surprising to find out that the Louisville Museum Plaza will result only in fattening the children of lawyers, rather than any new impact on the Louisville skyline. As with so many of these projects that we've heard about recently, it's pretty much certainly not gonna get built.
Dispute over unpaid bills at Museum Plaza concerns some on Metro Council
Unpaid-bills flap concerns some on council
By Marcus Green
January 30, 2009
Some Louisville Metro Council members want to know whether a dispute over unpaid bills at Museum Plaza could hinder the city's use of publicly owned land.
Council member Hal Heiner, R-19th District, introduced a resolution at last night's meeting asking Jefferson County Attorney Mike O'Connell's office to give its opinion on how liens filed against the developers could affect the city's holdings.
The liens are legal filings that allow contractors to stake a claim on property for unsettled bills. Heiner said a legal opinion would clarify whether any claims against the Museum Plaza developers would transfer to the city, which owns much of the land where the skyscraper is planned.
The $490 million complex planned for Eighth Street and River Road has been delayed by higher borrowing costs the developers would face since the credit market crisis started.
Jim King, D-10th District and the council's former president, also sought an informal opinion from O'Connell's office over the weekend following news that general contractor M.A. Mortenson Co. had filed a lien for a $2.3 million claim.
Bill Patteson, an O'Connell spokesman, declined to comment, but King said he was told the developers would be responsible for any liens as part of their agreement with the city. Any response to Heiner's resolution would become a public document.
Louisville Economic Development Director Bruce Traughber said "there is no question based on past practice" that liens cannot be applied to city property. About $1.4 million of the liens stake a claim on city-owned property.
The property -- now owned by the city or city agencies -- eventually would be transferred to Museum Plaza's developers once the developers have secured financing and show the ability to complete the project, Traughber said.
Heiner's resolution also asks Mayor Jerry Abramson and Museum Plaza's developers to provide a written report of the project's status and urges Abramson to ask the developers to resolve the liens.
"When liens are filed on a property, it calls into question the business practices and the financial viability of the project," said Heiner, a frequent critic of the Museum Plaza deal.
The development would include privately financed buildings, in addition to street and other public improvements using taxpayer money. Metro government would borrow about $47 million through general obligation bonds.
Museum Plaza's developers -- arts patron Laura Lee Brown and her husband, Steve Wilson; developer Steve Poe; and attorney Craig Greenberg -- dispute the amount of the Mortenson claim. Greenberg declined to discuss other details of the liens, including how they may be resolved.
"It's unfortunate that Councilman Heiner continues to put roadblocks in the way of progress and job creation," Greenberg said. "There are enough challenges today outside of our control and community to get this project under way."
Heiner said he is worried that certain milestones, such as the completion of construction drawings, in the city's agreement with the Museum Plaza developers aren't being met.
Greenberg said those drawings are in the advanced stages and noted that the project has received all of the permits needed for construction to start.
"The delay has everything to do with the financing markets," he said.
Dispute over unpaid bills at Museum Plaza concerns some on Metro Council
Unpaid-bills flap concerns some on council
By Marcus Green
January 30, 2009
Some Louisville Metro Council members want to know whether a dispute over unpaid bills at Museum Plaza could hinder the city's use of publicly owned land.
Council member Hal Heiner, R-19th District, introduced a resolution at last night's meeting asking Jefferson County Attorney Mike O'Connell's office to give its opinion on how liens filed against the developers could affect the city's holdings.
The liens are legal filings that allow contractors to stake a claim on property for unsettled bills. Heiner said a legal opinion would clarify whether any claims against the Museum Plaza developers would transfer to the city, which owns much of the land where the skyscraper is planned.
The $490 million complex planned for Eighth Street and River Road has been delayed by higher borrowing costs the developers would face since the credit market crisis started.
Jim King, D-10th District and the council's former president, also sought an informal opinion from O'Connell's office over the weekend following news that general contractor M.A. Mortenson Co. had filed a lien for a $2.3 million claim.
Bill Patteson, an O'Connell spokesman, declined to comment, but King said he was told the developers would be responsible for any liens as part of their agreement with the city. Any response to Heiner's resolution would become a public document.
Louisville Economic Development Director Bruce Traughber said "there is no question based on past practice" that liens cannot be applied to city property. About $1.4 million of the liens stake a claim on city-owned property.
The property -- now owned by the city or city agencies -- eventually would be transferred to Museum Plaza's developers once the developers have secured financing and show the ability to complete the project, Traughber said.
Heiner's resolution also asks Mayor Jerry Abramson and Museum Plaza's developers to provide a written report of the project's status and urges Abramson to ask the developers to resolve the liens.
"When liens are filed on a property, it calls into question the business practices and the financial viability of the project," said Heiner, a frequent critic of the Museum Plaza deal.
The development would include privately financed buildings, in addition to street and other public improvements using taxpayer money. Metro government would borrow about $47 million through general obligation bonds.
Museum Plaza's developers -- arts patron Laura Lee Brown and her husband, Steve Wilson; developer Steve Poe; and attorney Craig Greenberg -- dispute the amount of the Mortenson claim. Greenberg declined to discuss other details of the liens, including how they may be resolved.
"It's unfortunate that Councilman Heiner continues to put roadblocks in the way of progress and job creation," Greenberg said. "There are enough challenges today outside of our control and community to get this project under way."
Heiner said he is worried that certain milestones, such as the completion of construction drawings, in the city's agreement with the Museum Plaza developers aren't being met.
Greenberg said those drawings are in the advanced stages and noted that the project has received all of the permits needed for construction to start.
"The delay has everything to do with the financing markets," he said.
androiduk
Senior Member
To me, this site doesn't seem suited to sleek glass towers. I'd rather whatever they put up be clad in brick or stone or a combination of both to match the surrounding buildings. Avenue Rd. from Bloor to St. Clair could be an elegant strip if things are done right and the city gets rid of the racetrack by landscaping the middle lanes.
maestro
Senior Member
The notion of landmark design is just so contrived and just about everyone has jumping on the bandwagon. Louisville's Museum Plaza couldn't be a more fitting example. An awkward mess where the parts surpass the sum.
Clewes is grossly overated around these parts however his modernist interpretations still garner more envy than the lastest ode to phallicism. He's very likely ahead of his time.
Contrived? You use that word in its pejorative sense because you cannot see anything good coming from an attempt to create a landmark? Certainly there have been failures to create landmarks, but there have been lots of successes as well.
I am only asking that some particularly careful thought be given to this site because of its location in the city: sitting alongside one of our most prominent arterials, and impacting the west end of one of our most important shopping districts.
Is that not reason enough for those involved to be aware that what is built here could and probably should become a landmark if designed appropriately? It's a site that begs for attention to detail.
In regards to Louisville's Museum Plaza, I am not advocating for that on this site, at least as far as its out-of-place verticality goes. Conversely however, I am not afraid of the inventive spirit behind Museum Plaza's contrivance. I'd like to see some outside-the-box thinking when it comes to this project: do something special that does not overwhelm Yorkville's low-rise character, do something that adds to Yorkville's cachet, do something that brings Avenue Road a big step closer to becoming a truly grand avenue. Succeed on those terms and I think you have a landmark. Humdrum would be a crime here.
Finally, what do you really mean by what you wrote? Neither paragraph makes that much sense.
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I am only asking that some particularly careful thought be given to this site because of its location in the city: sitting alongside one of our most prominent arterials, and impacting the west end of one of our most important shopping districts.
Is that not reason enough for those involved to be aware that what is built here could and probably should become a landmark if designed appropriately? It's a site that begs for attention to detail.
In regards to Louisville's Museum Plaza, I am not advocating for that on this site, at least as far as its out-of-place verticality goes. Conversely however, I am not afraid of the inventive spirit behind Museum Plaza's contrivance. I'd like to see some outside-the-box thinking when it comes to this project: do something special that does not overwhelm Yorkville's low-rise character, do something that adds to Yorkville's cachet, do something that brings Avenue Road a big step closer to becoming a truly grand avenue. Succeed on those terms and I think you have a landmark. Humdrum would be a crime here.
Finally, what do you really mean by what you wrote? Neither paragraph makes that much sense.
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