adma
Superstar
Well, it's better than Brampton's Rose Centre. Though maybe, from an Urban Shocker perspective at least, it's so "better", it's worse...
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- Thread starter khris
- Start date
TKTKTK
Senior Member
Maybe it was all they could afford.
adma
Superstar
...or to put it another way: is it better to be raised in a Simpson household, or a Flanders household?
Urban Shocker
Doyenne
Wyliepoon says that an old theatre such as the Mariinsky "pays more attention to detail than anything D+S, or most major architects, are able to produce these days", but D+S have, in fact, paid enormous attention to detail with their FSCPA design ... and it has paid off with the success of the venue as a place to hear and perform opera. The great acoustics are the result of spatial design, and the lack of applied decoration doesn't make it any less of a design triumph - nor does it detract from the success of the spare and elegant City Room as one of our great urban spaces. Much has happened in the world - including the world of architecture - since the old Mariinsky opened in 1860.
Much the same concept as our FSCPA - a democratic and transparent city room - is being applied to Mariinsky II.
Building a pretentious faux Greek temple hasn't guaranteed that the world will flock to the Schermerhorn - a symphony hall, not an opera house, that hasn't recieved stellar reviews as far as the quality of its sound is concerned. If Diamond replaces Perrault and his Big Hair golden potato design, opera lovers in St.Petersberg will doubtless be as delighted as Washingtonians are with the Harman Hall he designed for them.
http://russia-ic.com/news/show/7554/
Much the same concept as our FSCPA - a democratic and transparent city room - is being applied to Mariinsky II.
Building a pretentious faux Greek temple hasn't guaranteed that the world will flock to the Schermerhorn - a symphony hall, not an opera house, that hasn't recieved stellar reviews as far as the quality of its sound is concerned. If Diamond replaces Perrault and his Big Hair golden potato design, opera lovers in St.Petersberg will doubtless be as delighted as Washingtonians are with the Harman Hall he designed for them.
http://russia-ic.com/news/show/7554/
jks
Continuous Lurker
Any rendering of what the Opera House will look like in the end??
Urban Shocker
Doyenne
Which end?
jks
Continuous Lurker
Um, after everything is completed??
TonyV
Senior Member
I am going to be watching this development carefully. Of key interest to me will be (a) the budget and (b) how Diamond designs the exterior for St. Petersburg.
Gergiev, the boss of the whole St. Petersburg opera development, visited Toronto's opera house a couple of years ago and loved what he heard. All you Diamond-bashers be aware that the Four Seasons contains an opera auditorium that is actually second to none. About the exterior, well, the architect said that if he were given a better budget he would have come up with something more dressy on the outside.
St. Petersburg is an opera capital; Toronto isn't yet, but has better than a fighting chance of becoming one with a facility such as we have. The St. Petersburg people are wise to go with D+S -- and they will fund the new opera house better than we did ours. So my sights are keenly trained on how D+S compliment the surroundings in St. Petersburg. The FSCPA doesn't flirt very well with Queen & University, to be sure.
A fabulous irony has struck me, of late -- a vanity project like the ROM, with its "starchitect", has fallen flat, and its cost was very large. If a bit of that 300 million that the ROM vacuumed up from the well-to-do had been put toward the opera at Queen & University, we might have an opera with an exterior that gives a clue of its inner excellence. There's got to be a story there.
Gergiev, the boss of the whole St. Petersburg opera development, visited Toronto's opera house a couple of years ago and loved what he heard. All you Diamond-bashers be aware that the Four Seasons contains an opera auditorium that is actually second to none. About the exterior, well, the architect said that if he were given a better budget he would have come up with something more dressy on the outside.
St. Petersburg is an opera capital; Toronto isn't yet, but has better than a fighting chance of becoming one with a facility such as we have. The St. Petersburg people are wise to go with D+S -- and they will fund the new opera house better than we did ours. So my sights are keenly trained on how D+S compliment the surroundings in St. Petersburg. The FSCPA doesn't flirt very well with Queen & University, to be sure.
A fabulous irony has struck me, of late -- a vanity project like the ROM, with its "starchitect", has fallen flat, and its cost was very large. If a bit of that 300 million that the ROM vacuumed up from the well-to-do had been put toward the opera at Queen & University, we might have an opera with an exterior that gives a clue of its inner excellence. There's got to be a story there.
Operajulian
New Member
The architect has a great deal to do with the acoustics. Not only in detailing the shape of surfaces but also in selction and approval of final finishes. For example, in the Four Seasons centre the plan was to have a wood lined interior but A) this woulod have cost too much money; and B) 90% of the best concert halls are in fact plaster lined.
Jack agreed to plaster and worked with Bob Essert and the plastering company to get both the mass/thickness required and the fine tooth nature to the surface that helps to disperse the high frequency sound.
Other choices included the shape of the prosceniu opening, the sculpturing of the ceiling for both acoustics and for the ability to get stage lighting a shot of the stage.
Jack agreed to plaster and worked with Bob Essert and the plastering company to get both the mass/thickness required and the fine tooth nature to the surface that helps to disperse the high frequency sound.
Other choices included the shape of the prosceniu opening, the sculpturing of the ceiling for both acoustics and for the ability to get stage lighting a shot of the stage.
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Urban Shocker
Doyenne
None of that will mean anything to the Diamond-bashers, whose idea of "going to the opera" consists of standing on the sidewalk and complaining that a delivery entrance looks like a delivery entrance and not a Greek temple, etc. etc. etc.
The ROM addition functions well, though I agree with TonyV that it's a huge amount to pay for a linking wing at the north end of the building with an enclosed atrium - the fairly conventional requirements asked of it. Once the renovated galleries on the second and third floors of the 1934 cross-wing are completed, the sensible, functional logic of the Crystal will become even more apparent. Like Gehry's AGO, Libeskind's addition corrected a number of problems created by the previous renovation. I don't see it as a "vanity project" though the Museum made no bones about wanting a signature building that acts as a 3D logo for the institution.
The ROM addition functions well, though I agree with TonyV that it's a huge amount to pay for a linking wing at the north end of the building with an enclosed atrium - the fairly conventional requirements asked of it. Once the renovated galleries on the second and third floors of the 1934 cross-wing are completed, the sensible, functional logic of the Crystal will become even more apparent. Like Gehry's AGO, Libeskind's addition corrected a number of problems created by the previous renovation. I don't see it as a "vanity project" though the Museum made no bones about wanting a signature building that acts as a 3D logo for the institution.
TKTKTK
Senior Member
As if that's where the criticism starts and stops. No one has argued that the acoustics aren't brilliant, but there's more to architecture than the way it sounds, eh?
As for the architect playing a major role in the acoustics themselves, I guess. For the most part I'd say he just listened to the hired help. If Gergiev wants to replicate 4SC's successes, he really only needs to hire their acoustical engineers.
Urban Shocker
Doyenne
Well the architecture creates the way it sounds. That's why D+S worked with Essert to model the space using computer programs - with all those little balls that bounced back off surfaces etc. - tweaking the space so it worked ... and then building it.
Essert wasn't the architect, he was a consultant to one.
Essert wasn't the architect, he was a consultant to one.
TKTKTK
Senior Member
Essert's requirements for the acoustics amount to just another building condition; like lot dimensions, or emergency exits. Unless you're suggesting that D+S actively did something, or introduced something, that enhanced acoustic performance independently of Essert's work.
Urban Shocker
Doyenne
You don't keep a dog and bark yourself. Essert did the acoustical barking for Diamond because he has the specialist knowledge ( and the track record ) to do so. I doubt if Jack loomed the seat coverings or sawed the wood planking for the floors either, but they all contribute to the building he designed.
TKTKTK
Senior Member
Which goes back to my original point that if Gergiev wants to replicate the 4SC's successes, he need only hire Essert.
It stands to reason that no matter who the architect was, as long as Essert had been the acoustical engineer, 4SC would sound just as amazing.
As for heaping praise on its envelope; even D+S admit they could have done better.