TKTKTK
Senior Member
Was that just a thought and reasoning exercise?
Bikes *do* cause congestion as well, by restricting available lanes
Are bikes the reason for congestion in the city? Absolutely not.
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- Thread starter khris
- Start date
Was that just a thought and reasoning exercise?
Bikes *do* cause congestion as well, by restricting available lanes
Are bikes the reason for congestion in the city? Absolutely not.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
TKTKTK:
Or perhaps the availability of an additional lane encourages more drivers to use the car, thus further any congestion? It's not like driving is a static activity that doesn't react to the availability and convenience.
Aod
Or perhaps the availability of an additional lane encourages more drivers to use the car, thus further any congestion? It's not like driving is a static activity that doesn't react to the availability and convenience.
Aod
TKTKTK
Senior Member
I don't agree with all forms of social engineering (just the LCBO). If you provide people with a viable alternative, they'll take it. Forcing people to change their habits without offering an enticement only breeds resentment. Many people still drive downtown because there is no other reasonable option, reducing lanes isn't going to change that.
If you want fewer people to drive downtown, or drive to downtown, then we should be focusing on our public transit system. Urban cycling is not the ideal answer to Toronto's movement woes.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Anything is social engineering - economics, laws, regulations, enticements - so to say that you don't believe in it when advocating the same thing is not exactly accurate.
Perhaps you should check out this article that I've just posted:
http://www.urbantoronto.ca/showthread.php?p=233038
AoD
Perhaps you should check out this article that I've just posted:
http://www.urbantoronto.ca/showthread.php?p=233038
AoD
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TKTKTK
Senior Member
As I said in the thread: to select an option other than driving, sometimes people need an option other than driving...
Cycling, given our climate, is not that option for most people.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
For half a year, just like driving is not an option for a significant segment of our population during winter - people adapt.
AoD
AoD
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TKTKTK
Senior Member
Driving isn't an option for a significant segment of our population during winter? Huh?
Cycling is great for about 4 months in the year: 1.5 months before the oppressive heat of summer hits (who wants to shower when they get to work?) and about 2.5 months after.
Unless your car doesn't have a roof, or you only own racing slicks, most people can (and do) use their car all year 'round.
dt_toronto_geek
Superstar
If you live within the city, the TTC is a perfectly reasonable option. No doubt it can increase the time of a trip, depending on where the trip originates, but it's a very reasonable option.
Couldn't agree more!
It certainly isn't, but it's a reasonable alternative that can continue to grow in popularity. I've seen the popularity of cycling explode in just the last ten years. If the City continues to add bike lanes along major routes I believe that it can continue to become a more attractive, and popular way of getting around.
L
lawsond
Guest
i respectfully disagree. lanes are disappearing all over downtown toronto. the "change of usage" argument only means more cars are clogging other streets that formerly had fewer cars. it's simple math.
and yes, other cars crowding into fewer lanes do hamper emergency vehicles.
there is no irony involved.
so keep the danged lanes open. or move the hospitals to more accessible sites.
dag nab it.
Archivist
Senior Member
it's simple math. No, it is not. It has been shown time and time again that increasing capacity increases trip, and decreasing capacity decreases trips. Yes, traffic can and does just up and disappear at times, if it is made to do so. Do some research on this - I've done it before and I've posted it here and I'm not doing it again. You assume that demand for car circulation is a given, and it is not.
And with all due respect to your recent incident (which did not involve an emergency vehicle), argument around emergency vehicles and their need to get through are not convincing for me. They have been used time and time and time again, but big arteries make for faster cars make for more deaths. This is the irony of that argument, designing cities to "allow" for passage of emergency vehicles ends up making them more deadly for everybody.
And with all due respect to your recent incident (which did not involve an emergency vehicle), argument around emergency vehicles and their need to get through are not convincing for me. They have been used time and time and time again, but big arteries make for faster cars make for more deaths. This is the irony of that argument, designing cities to "allow" for passage of emergency vehicles ends up making them more deadly for everybody.
Tewder
Senior Member
I don't see too many Bay Street lawyers riding their bikes to work...
The only viable option to the car is public transportation. There is nothing wrong with individuals wanting to ride their bikes as their main mode of transportation, or simply for leisure, but there is a place for everything and ripping up the main traffic arteries and bottlenecking traffic , in the absence of an adequate option for public transport, does not make any sense. City Hall needs to stop pandering to fringe self-interest groups muddying the waters on these important issues.
The only viable option to the car is public transportation. There is nothing wrong with individuals wanting to ride their bikes as their main mode of transportation, or simply for leisure, but there is a place for everything and ripping up the main traffic arteries and bottlenecking traffic , in the absence of an adequate option for public transport, does not make any sense. City Hall needs to stop pandering to fringe self-interest groups muddying the waters on these important issues.
confusion
Active Member
You'd be surprised at the number of people who live and work downtown whose mode of transportation is a bicycle.
And I disagree. With the right attitude, cycling can provide a wonderful solution to congestion. There are examples all over the world. And don't talk about climate either. There are many northern European countries that are just as cold/snowy as we are and have magnificent systems.
I cycle all year... in Toronto.
Archivist
Senior Member
I also cycle year-round.
Though not today, so much.
Though not today, so much.
WeirdFishes
Active Member
I have a car, but no longer use it. It sits in my parking spot while I cycle in the summer and walk the hour to work in the winter.
I love having a car for those grocery trips or weekend getaways, but I see no use for it if you live in the city where you can use TTC, bike or your two legs. This is one of the many advantages of city living.
I would love to see bike lanes or a centre tree medium on Jarvis.
I love having a car for those grocery trips or weekend getaways, but I see no use for it if you live in the city where you can use TTC, bike or your two legs. This is one of the many advantages of city living.
I would love to see bike lanes or a centre tree medium on Jarvis.
Tewder
Senior Member
Congrats, but that's not the point. A vast majority don't or can't cycle, for whatever reasons. Not to be facetious but why not propose skateboarding lanes and expect everyone to do that too?