[picard102]

I always cringe when I hear people talk about filling in the Allen trench. Besides burying some of the few stations with natural light, I'd lose the ability to text people on my way downtown from Wilson.

 

[Northern Light]

^^^

The TTC is already putting cell service into all the tunnels, so that's a non-issue.

Natural light can be sustained......Wilson and Yorkdale are above ground (not in the trench).

Glencairn and Lawrence West get most of their natural light from Skylights, that can can continue, they are centre platform stations with no mezzanine blocking the natural light from above.

Only Eglinton West would lose the natural light, because it gets it from windows.

 

[Second_in_pie]

I always cringe when I hear people talk about filling in the Allen trench. Besides burying some of the few stations with natural light, I'd lose the ability to text people on my way downtown from Wilson.

They could leave a little slot of open air above the subway

Or not fill it in and turn the highway into parkland, just chipping the concrete back down to soil. Then maybe cut a river in under the subway and add one or two little foot bridges between stations for people to use to get across the tracks. I'm sure it could be done, and it could end up being quite nice if done right. I sure am picturing it so.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Given that the plan is to replace it with a 10-lane surface roadway, it would make access to the lake more difficult.

Also included in the plan to do this is to increase the capacity on Adelaide and Richmond off the DVP. These streets are a blight on Corktown now, really dividing the community in two. Wouldn't we be better served by converting these streets back to 2-way, and discouraging their use as an expressway?

There are a number of options on the table that are being studied - let's see what the study recommends before condemning it.

In its current configuration, the section east of Jarvis has excess capacity and is a significant barrier to the waterfront and The Port Lands. Even a scaled down overpass link between the Gardiner and the DVP coupled with an improved Lake Shore would be significantly better.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Rob Ford has a fetish for the automobile and a total dislike for streetcars and public transit, so tearing down any freeway would be against his nature.

 

[cacruden]

Boring - no really boring a big tunnel like they did in KL is more interesting than the "Big Dig"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMART_Tunnel

 

[Electrify]

Ya know, people say that highways are always at/over capacity when built, yet here we are talking about tearing down the Gardiner because it is apparently under capacity... When something comes along which proves the anti-car people wrong, is their answer to tear it down?

I would also argue that population growth plays just as much, if not more, of a role in congestion than road widening and building. Did the majority of people who lived in Forest Hill in the 70s decide to not purchase a car because the Spadina Expressway was never completed?

A couple of points worth pondering...

 

[Chuck]

Ya know, people say that highways are always at/over capacity when built, yet here we are talking about tearing down the Gardiner because it is apparently under capacity... When something comes along which proves the anti-car people wrong, is their answer to tear it down?

LOL, in a city as congested as Toronto, we should prize any piece of infrastructure that has the benefit of actually being slightly under capacity. The odd time it happens, it's nice to be able to sit on the subway, or drive the speed limit during rush hour. In a city as gridlocked as Toronto, people are too quick to label something redundant because it doesn't carry as many passengers as the Yonge subway, or as many cars as the 401.

Back in the days when Toronto had a transportation vision, we deliberately oversized new infrastructure projects to allow them to be able to handle future capacity which might only be reached 50 years later. We're heading down the wrong path when new infrastructure projects are only designed to carry today's passenger loads.

 

[EnviroTO]

we are talking about tearing down the Gardiner because it is apparently under capacity.

I have never heard under capacity used as a rationale to tear down the Gardiner. By what metric is it under capacity? By the fact it moves well at night?

 

[Dan416]

People have definitely argued to tear down the portion of the Gardiner east of the DVP because it's "under capacity". Ditto for the Allen.

 

[GraphicMatt]

It is possible to have a rational conversation about transportation infrastructure without it turning into a goddamn philosophical debate about cars and trains and whatever.

The Gardiner East of Jarvis has significantly more capacity than it will ever need. It was built with the assumption that it would connect to the Scarborough expressway. It will also, in the next few decades, require significant maintenance work. Should we look at options that might improve the pedestrian/cycling experience and maybe allow for new development or should we just put our fingers in our ears and keep the status quo?

 

[Red Mosquito]

People like to cite the Boston big dig as a financial disaster (which it was), however we should not compare the Gardiner to it. The big dig, went under railways, watterways, a new brige had to be built, on/off ramps going in every direction and the twisty spaghetti like routes they all took. Putting the Gardiner underground whould be childs play in comparison.

 

[nfitz]

So Toronto, which grows by 100,000 people a year ...

Where do you get that? Toronto hasn't ever grown by that much in a year. It's only forecast to grow 500,000 in the next 20 years. That's 25,000 a year. It took about 35 years to grown the last 500,000 people, that's less than 15,000 a year.

 

[Hipster Duck]

^The GTA grows by 100k per year. The Gardiner is a major transportation corridor in the region, so it is not unfathomable to speak about its relation to population growth in regional terms.

 

[nfitz]

^The GTA grows by 100k per year. The Gardiner is a major transportation corridor in the region, so it is not unfathomable to speak about its relation to population growth in regional terms.

The Gardiner isn't a major transportation corridor for the GTA; if that were the case, it would be a provincial highway, rather than city-owned. The province clearly supports it not being a provincial highway as they downloaded a portion of the QEW to the city a few years ago. There's little reason for anyone who lives outside of the City of Toronto to be using the section of Gardiner between Jarvis and the DVP on a regular basis other than to head downtown, which they can still do using the upgraded Richmond/Adelaide ramp.