[allengeorge]

Not sure where to put this, so, created a new thread:

Floating patios. Attractive retail. Bike valets. How a new vision could revive Toronto’s ‘underwhelming’ waterfront

Waterfront BIA calls for ways to get visitors who come to the waterfront to stay, shop and eat.

www.thestar.com

Some of the ideas are outlandish, but I agree with the overall assessment that Toronto’s waterfront is…lacking. I’ve had better experiences in SF, NYC, PHL (to name a few) in North America. And don’t get me started on waterfronts in major European cities

 

[Northern Light]

Not sure where to put this, so, created a new thread:

Floating patios. Attractive retail. Bike valets. How a new vision could revive Toronto’s ‘underwhelming’ waterfront

Waterfront BIA calls for ways to get visitors who come to the waterfront to stay, shop and eat.

www.thestar.com

Aome of the ideas are outlandish, but I agree with the overall assessment that Toronto’s waterfront is…lacking. I’ve had better experiences in SF, NYC, PHL (to name a few) in North America. And don’t get me started on waterfronts in major European cities

I would agree the experience could be better, but I would look at it thusly:

1) Finish the infrastructure, notably the bridges across the slips that tie the water's edge together, and the waterfront promenade, including lower water level deck.

2) More public washrooms are required.

3) Additional animation from patios and to-go food kiosks/venders. Near-term focus, fix the back end of the hotel next to the Ferry Terminal, that could be a banger patio/resto space that animates the terminal area and Habour Square Park, but its not.

4) Also near-term let kiosk/street food vendors have additional space, particularly where there's little to no competition, but there is a market.

5) Bring back the skating facility we just lost or build a better one nearby.

6) The area would benefit from at least one indoor entertainment option. This is important for winter, but also rainy days. A cinema would be fine (no blank streetwalls!)

7) A proper winter animation strategy is needed for Love Park. If they don't refit the pond for skating, considering a strategy of managed fires (in kettles or such) a BIA staffer can keep an eye for safety; added winter interest landscaping would also help.

There's lots more that could be done, but that's a good place to start.

 

[allengeorge]

I agree with the general thrust of your ideas: finishing infra and adding washrooms, animation and indoor entertainment.

I was struggling to articulate why Toronto’s waterfront is lacking, and in general it comes down to it having “no sense of place.” When I think of wonderful waterfronts I’ve experienced (NYC, Copenhagen, SF, Chicago) - they all have a “wow” factor associated with them. And not just one - many. Part of it comes from natural beauty, and part comes from programming.

Toronto’s waterfront has it tough on the natural side, I think - because it doesn’t have an obvious vista like the Marin headlands or the NYC skyline. And then it’s completely let down by the lack of signature attractions or events along it. The West reads as a car-oriented linear park, the center feels disjointed, and you can’t always follow the lake, and the East is (currently) a construction zone. There are no huge cultural draws along it, and little destination retail. It’s generally blah.

 

[Northern Light]

I agree with the general thrust of your ideas: finishing infra and adding washrooms, animation and indoor entertainment.

I was struggling to articulate why Toronto’s waterfront is lacking, and in general it comes down to it having “no sense of place.” When I think of wonderful waterfronts I’ve experienced (NYC, Copenhagen, SF, Chicago) - they all have a “wow” factor associated with them. And not just one - many. Part of it comes from natural beauty, and part comes from programming.

Toronto’s waterfront has it tough on the natural side, I think - because it doesn’t have an obvious vista like the Marin headlands or the NYC skyline.

Well now, here's the thing, the Toronto skyline views from the Islands and from the Portlands are both pretty impressive, even today. Those don't tend to feature in people's minds though because the Portlands were a mostly industrial/vacant space and then a construction zone; while the Islands require a ferry trip, and also encumbered by the terrible terminal experience on both the mainland and the islands.

The West reads as a car-oriented linear park,

I think the Bathurst Quay and Spadina Pier projects present a solid opportunity to anchor the western side well from a public space point of view. The silos will need a long term tenant.

the center feels disjointed, and you can’t always follow the lake

The connections across the slips, the ferry terminal and better engaging The Islands as a star attraction are key here. Ferry should cost the same as TTC, and run every 15M or better May1st to Canadian Thanksgiving. Strategic investments on the Islands that create a grand path, expand/improve watercraft rental, bring in bikeshare, expand food options and create one or more signature natural restoration spots will go some distances as well.

, and the East is (currently) a construction zone. There are no huge cultural draws along it, and little destination retail. It’s generally blah.

(Inner) East - Quayside should offer some quality architectural drama, we have the new bridge over to the Portlands coming and the Parliament slip project should bring a cultural venue and outdoor pool.

(outer/portlands); The new bridge will enhance access, the existing river project plus destination playground will help anchor a 'there', though obviously more will need to happen w/time.

 

[allengeorge]

while the Islands require a ferry trip, and also encumbered by the terrible terminal experience on both the mainland and the islands.

Yeah. That ferry terminal should have been redone yesterday. I realize the city has been waiting (hoping) for monies from 191 Bay IIRC, but it’s such a waste to let the current terminal stay.

I think the Bathurst Quay and Spadina Pier projects present a solid opportunity to anchor the western side well from a public space point of view.

I think of the West as starting farther out - think Humber Bay Shores, etc.

 

[Northern Light]

I think of the West as starting farther out - think Humber Bay Shores, etc.

In that case, i think you're a bit harsh on the Western bit, I mean Sunnyside Pool is a pretty nice facility, and the Humber Bay Parklands offer 1/2 decent nature, all have good skyline views.

That said, yes Lakeshore is close at hand and parking eats too much space. We've had a plan since the Miller era to address that by consolidating the parking and Lakeshore to the north and adding roughly 9 acres of new waterside park to the south. Of course, we haven't delivered on that plan, mostly because we've dithered on WWLRT with which it was associated.

 

[milkycontent]

In that case, i think you're a bit harsh on the Western bit, I mean Sunnyside Pool is a pretty nice facility, and the Humber Bay Parklands offer 1/2 decent nature, all have good skyline views.

That said, yes Lakeshore is close at hand and parking eats too much space. We've had a plan since the Miller era to address that by consolidating the parking and Lakeshore to the north and adding roughly 9 acres of new waterside park to the south. Of course, we haven't delivered on that plan, mostly because we've dithered on WWLRT with which it was associated.

Is there a link/map of this plan? Would be really curious to see how it would be laid out.

 

[Northern Light]

Is there a link/map of this plan? Would be really curious to see how it would be laid out.

I know there's close-ups that are more revelatory somewhere........

 

[Blixtein]

The waterfront is terribly disjointed and lacks basic continuity for it to work. The area between Harbourfront and Sugar Beach is a catastrophe that occupies prime real estate that otherwise should be the main attraction.

 

[thenewguy]

I am filled with hope. I have lived in Toronto and now visit from elsewhere. I visited several sites along the waterfront this weekend. Eastern Queen’s Quay was full of people enjoying the weather. I sat and had a glass of wine near Sugar Beach and watched sailboats glide by. I marvelled at Aqualuna and was surprised to see so many trees planted on the balconies - a fact that was not obvious from the many pictures I’ve seen on this site. I enjoyed the double allee of trees on the eastern bayfront. I dragged my wife into Corktown Common and she was surprised it was all man made. It was a great intro to our walk down the new cherry street to see the bridges and the work on promentary park. If you’ve not been the size is truly astonishing. All these elements together are building the waterfront we all desire. Yes the missing pieces are important, Rees park, the proposed park in front of the old LCBO warehouse - the missing wooden promenade and all the signature bridges. But let’s salute how far this has all come while acknowledging what still needs to be done.

 

[DSC]

The waterfront is terribly disjointed and lacks basic continuity for it to work. The area between Harbourfront and Sugar Beach is a catastrophe that occupies prime real estate that otherwise should be the main attraction.

The part of the waterfront from Harbourfront to Sugar Beach is part of the section of QQE that is about to start getting its face-lift and has several buildings that are 'old' and predate the waterfront revitalisation. The Redpath Sugar refinery is going nowhere as it supports employment but the Star site is going to be 'improved and the Sugar Wharf plans look good - let's hope they happen! One day the Harbour Castle convention centre part will be dealt with.

Of course, a lot rides on FINALLY getting the LRT but plans for that are moving ahead - slowly! Now to see some action!! (Transit First was clearly a bit of wishful thinking!)

 

[rdaner]

The part of the waterfront from Harbourfront to Sugar Beach is part of the section of QQE that is about to start getting its face-lift and has several buildings that are 'old' and predate the waterfront revitalisation. The Redpath Sugar refinery is going nowhere as it supports employment but the Star site is going to be 'improved and the Sugar Wharf plans look good - let's hope they happen! One day the Harbour Castle convention centre part will be dealt with.

Of course, a lot rides on FINALLY getting the LRT but plans for that are moving ahead - slowly! Now to see some action!! (Transit First was clearly a bit of wishful thinking!)

I agree but would add something about Redpath. It is a great employer and has been around forever but I have noticed that as the number of pedestrians and cars has been increasing it looks like the trucks are beginning to have more difficulty. This will only increase to the point where it will start affecting operations.

 

[DSC]

I agree but would add something about Redpath. It is a great employer and has been around forever but I have noticed that as the number of pedestrians and cars has been increasing it looks like the trucks are beginning to have more difficulty. This will only increase to the point where it will start affecting operations.

On that basis we will have no employment like this downtown which is NOT good! Individuals can take transit (if there is any!!) Trucks full of sugar or widgets can't!

 

[Blixtein]

I think it’s inevitable that the centre of gravity will eventually shift to the east. Once the Portlands get going the stretch from there to Sugar Beach will not have any disruptions along the shoreline and the whole thing will have elegant coherence that will draw people in. On the other hand, the area between Yonge and Harbourfront is fundamentally dysfunctional and not much can be done about it unless you bulldoze all those buildings on the south side of QQ. That obviously is never going to happen.

 

[Natika33]

On that basis we will have no employment like this downtown which is NOT good! Individuals can take transit (if there is any!!) Trucks full of sugar or widgets can't!

What are their options for shifting more towards water transport?