[smuncky]

there are some really great shots done by inventor_77 over on flickr. check em out.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/inventor_77/sets/72157594165057819/

 

[Michael Cook]

Hello, thanks for the interest. Wow, that's a hideous process on that shot of the stone section of the Belt Line Drain, I really need to go back and fix it (or better yet, go back to the drain and reshoot it).

p.s, what these guys are doing is dangerous. it is possible to die of asphyxiation in the sewers (more likely in sanitation sewers) and anything can happen down there, all those slippery surfaces covered in slime can cause serious injury, a sudden storm can cause the tunnels to fill, you can probably get some disease, etc. having your lighting fail would be disastrous.

Now he's getting into some sanitary sewers (mostly in Montreal), but most of what's listed on that site is for storm water or river drainage, and it's not as dangerous as you might think. Going out when it's raining is foolish. Injury is actually very rare.

All this is true. And the most interesting sanitary sewers I've been into have been here in Toronto and Hamilton -- the Montreal collector system is big and eye-opening, but of what I've seen the ones here in Ontario have more character (that said, I haven't seen the best of the older brick ones that my MTL colleagues have uncovered).

Just to expand upon what junctionist said, there are risks but they are manageable ones if you act with thought and care. Objectively, what we're doing underground is no more risk-laden than a lot of surface activities that are socially accepted (mountain biking, marathon running and driving all spring immediately to mind). After logging upwards of a thousand hours underground, I've come to realize that the bulk of perceived risks are socially and institutionally conditioned, rather than objective. And in 95% of the environments I'm photographing, there is little or none of what mountaineers would describe as "objective risk" -- risk that can be recognized but cannot be mitigated (the exception is some of the Niagara tunnels, the mining, and some of the MTL sewers my colleagues have gotten into). There is good airflow, there is low to moderate water flow, and the systems are built large enough (and our local climate is predictable enough) such that a sudden flood-out is all but impossible. I'd be confident visiting more than 90% of these local drains on a day of moderate rainfall, though we usually try to avoid even that.

I don't go around trying to encourage random people to go underground without a good sense of what they're getting into, but at the same time I think our collective perceptions of risk have been inflated.

So, I'm here... If anyone has any questions, fire away! : )

 

[flar]

I've heard that Hamilton has an underground river for drainage off the escarpment. It's possible, because something like 14 creeks have been "removed" over the years, mainly by roads up the escarpment.

There is also a rumour that there is a tunnel from the big Armoury on James St. North to the Harbour, built for military purposes. I don't necessarily believe this, but I suspect there is something underneath the Armoury.

 

[smuncky]

where can i join you on these underground adventures?

 

[Michael Cook]

where can i join you on these underground adventures?

I hope to hold some sort of expo for interested people sometime later this year when things warm up. I'll let you know.

I've heard that Hamilton has an underground river for drainage off the escarpment. It's possible, because something like 14 creeks have been "removed" over the years, mainly by roads up the escarpment.

Well, there are a number of different things coming off the escarpment. You'll see on my site several "waterfall" drains that are basically buried mountain creeks that emerge as waterfalls from arched portals on the West Mountain. Second, there's the Mountain Juggernaut, also on my site, which is a massive storm trunk sewer that runs west-to-east between the Linc and Stone Church Road. Third, there's the Fennell Avenue Trunk Sewer, a large combined sewer that I haven't been in that falls off the Mountain down a deep drop shaft to an interceptor at Greenhill Avenue, draining both the roads and toilets of the northeast quarter of the Mountain.

As for the armoury rumours, the Wellington Street Sewer runs near there, but it wasn't built until the 1920s.

 

[flar]

Wow, I visited the site. Those are great shots

 

[smuncky]

I hope to hold some sort of expo for interested people sometime later this year when things warm up. I'll let you know.

awesome. i'd definitely like to come on one of those. i've always wanted to go on these sorts of explorations but never had a person to go with.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

michael cook, is it possible to explore garrison creek? http://www.lostrivers.ca/GarrisonCreek.htm

 

[Michael Cook]

I've been working on that : )

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

I've been working on that : )

sweet! that one should be all brick. would it be storm or sanitary? i know the reason they buried it was because it was polluted with sanitary waste back in the day. i wonder if that's still the case? are there grate entrances to it or only manholes?

just a suggestion, i think a hand held laser could come in handy to see how far a tunnel goes or to see at least where the tunnel bends in the distance.