Riverdale Rink Rat
Senior Member
OK, I'm genuinely puzzled. To which specific Paris riot are you referring? Was there a riot in Paris recently where the security personnel killed some people? Link, please?
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- Thread starter Southcore
- Start date
OK, I'm genuinely puzzled. To which specific Paris riot are you referring? Was there a riot in Paris recently where the security personnel killed some people? Link, please?
Juan_Lennon416
Senior Member
I think it was a few years ago in the suburbs of Paris
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
So you're replacing a report which you accuse of being biased with a bunch of anecdotes. Not exactly convincing in any regard.
AoD
TOperson
Active Member
They're not anecdotes, they are comments from actual UK economists about the London Olympics. Wow.
tiffer24
Senior Member
Former Ford staffer calls his successor in the Mayor's Office a "fucking moron."
graeme @graemeTO
Perhaps TEAM RICHARDSON/TORY/WYNNE plan to run an Olympics SO profitable we can pay off our $300 billion debt? #topoli
Another thoughtful commentator who doesn't want the Olympics...
AndreaPalladio
Senior Member
Because you can take everything one of Gordon Browns flacks said to the bank!
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
TOperson
Active Member
The economists I quoted are not Brown flacks.
AndreaPalladio
Senior Member
In what fantasy land was Jonathan Portes, a former chief economist at the Cabinet Office, not a Gordon Brown flack? You know, one of the chief economists who didn't see the great recession coming?
TOperson
Active Member
You can't have it both ways. If Portes is a flack, so were the economists who did the study - commissioned by the UK government - saying the London Olympics netted an economic benefit.
TOareaFan
Superstar
IMO, Boston pulling out removes the last reasonable reason that Toronto would rush to that September bid date for 2024 and, instead, carefully consider the pros and cons of a 2028 bid.
The only flaw, prior to today, in waiting and missing the deadline for 2024 was that if Boston won that bid.....you would, in effect, be waiting until 2040 or later before the games came to North America.
With Boston out, that threat is gone and Toronto can, and should, take its time to carefully consider what it learned from PanAms and what the implication of a successful Olympic bid would be.
Boston pulling out bought Toronto time....it should take it and use it wisely.
The only flaw, prior to today, in waiting and missing the deadline for 2024 was that if Boston won that bid.....you would, in effect, be waiting until 2040 or later before the games came to North America.
With Boston out, that threat is gone and Toronto can, and should, take its time to carefully consider what it learned from PanAms and what the implication of a successful Olympic bid would be.
Boston pulling out bought Toronto time....it should take it and use it wisely.
andrewpmk
Senior Member
$1.5 billion is probably enough to pay for the security costs and not much more. If you were willing to have the Olympics on the cheap maybe you could do it for $5 billion (perhaps $1 billion for security, $1 billion for the rest of operating costs, $2 billion for Olympic stadium, $1 billion for Athlete's Village), assuming that you build nothing else new and reuse the aquatics centre in Scarborough and all other Pan Am venues. So the taxpayer cost would only be $2.5 billion after the $1.5 billion IOC contribution and $1 billion in revenue for selling the athlete's village (assuming that the Toronto condo market doesn't tank). In reality there is a temptation to build too many new venues, for instance the IOC will complain that the aquatics centre is poorly located and doesn't have enough seating capacity and propose to build a bigger one in a more central location, etc. The cost of summer Olympics has tended to be in the $10-15 billion range. This does not include the cost of useful transportation infrastructure (e.g. $8 billion for DRL from Don Mills/Sheppard to downtown, a new GO station near the Don River which would serve both the Unilever office development and the Olympic stadium, etc.) Is the only reason for having the Olympics that it provides the politicians an excuse to build a lot of useful transportation infrastructure? The Olympics and Expo seem to have worked for that purpose in Montreal and Vancouver. Why can't we build the useful transportation infrastructure without the useless mega sporting events?
TOperson
Active Member
"Why can't we build the useful transportation infrastructure without the useless mega sporting events?"
I think it's somewhat along the lines of Starve the Beast approach to taxes and public spending. By withholding the funds for necessary improvements, eventually a desperation/semi-crisis sets in, so that the public is willing to go along with almost anything just to finally get the work done, even at an exorbitant cost. This creates a great opportunity for assorted cronies to cash in, so they make sure to buy the politicians who will play the game. The long game, if necessary.
The fun and spectacle of the Olympics provides an excellent distraction. Like that old Seinfeld joke about airports - all the planes etc are there to keep you from noticing the beating you're taking on a tuna sandwich.
ETA: It seems to work, too. Lots of comments about Olympic bids, in many candidate cities, are along the lines of "this is the only way we'll get funding for infrastructure we really need". It's weird how docile people are about it.
I think it's somewhat along the lines of Starve the Beast approach to taxes and public spending. By withholding the funds for necessary improvements, eventually a desperation/semi-crisis sets in, so that the public is willing to go along with almost anything just to finally get the work done, even at an exorbitant cost. This creates a great opportunity for assorted cronies to cash in, so they make sure to buy the politicians who will play the game. The long game, if necessary.
The fun and spectacle of the Olympics provides an excellent distraction. Like that old Seinfeld joke about airports - all the planes etc are there to keep you from noticing the beating you're taking on a tuna sandwich.
ETA: It seems to work, too. Lots of comments about Olympic bids, in many candidate cities, are along the lines of "this is the only way we'll get funding for infrastructure we really need". It's weird how docile people are about it.
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Tuscani01
Senior Member
$2 Billion for an Olympic stadium? That's way too high. Tokyo's starchitect stadium was pegged at $2 billion before being scraped because $2 billion was too high of a price. London's cost just under $1 Billion, and that's with the cost of conversion after the games.
andrewpmk
Senior Member
It's more like, the politicians ignore transportation infastructure (or build stupid things like the a subway to the CN railway yard in Vaughan and the most expensive LRT line in the world) until there is a big mega sporting event.